Oŝo-Jabe:There are at least three elements which don't match up with the Latin-derived symbols, because of their Fundamental names: antimono, oro, and azoto.

Yes sir. I am aware that any change or evolution in Esperanto is an additive process, without eliminating the former use, as is what I proposed there. One can still use "azoto" and be understood but I personally hope that "nitrogeno" will prevail and become the more official word.

And, really, thanks for informing me of the "antimono"=Sb. The first time I've heard of this!

The main difference between words like "karbono", "oro" and "azoto", "antimono" is the fact that the all formers are samfonta with their Latin symbol, while the latters aren't. That is, it can be proved through etymological study that "oro" comes from the Latinic "Aurum", and "karbono" from "Carbo". On the other hand, "azoto" is chosen by Lavoisier and the name "antimono" doesn't have a certain origin. (Though here in Wiki we have

The early uses of antimonium include the translations, in 1050-1100, by Constantine the African of Arabic medical treatises. Several authorities believe that antimonium is a scribal corruption of some Arabic form; Meyerhof derives it from ithmid; other possibilities include Athimar, the Arabic name of the metal, and a hypothetical *as-stimmi, derived from or parallel to the Greek.

)
But surely they cannot be from the same Latin words which gave us "N" and "Sb".

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And to address you second assertion, I do have some reasons to call for a match of "Nitrogeno" with its symbol.

1. It is obviously easier to memorize and learn. (Unlike "Karbono"=C, Nitogeno matches with its symbol perfectly.)
2. Though I am not exactly sure, it seems Nitrogeno is at least as internationally popular as Azoto.
(And then we comes to my proposal of shortening it as "Nitro")

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But in the case of "Antimono" I have to admit I am not as certain. Obviously a *Stibiumo* will be easier to learn and memorize. But
1. There is no such word so far.
2. From Wiki's Language panel, it seems that Antimono is dominant across the world with only a few exceptions (Chinese, Russian, Українська, Kurdî, Română)

So... maybe I will let this be. So unfortunate for learners of Perioda Tablo.

I've just thought of a rather outlandish way to remember that azoto stands for N. If you rotate "z" 90 degrees counter-clockwise, it looks like an "N."

LyzTyphone:The main difference between words like "karbono", "oro" and "azoto", "antimono" is the fact that the all formers are samfonta with their Latin symbol, while the latters aren't.

What does a scientist care whether the word he is using derives from the same word as the Latin term? If your plan is for every word to match up with the symbol, nothing else should be important. Arbitrarily renaming some and not renaming others does not help anyone.

What does a scientist care whether the word he is using derives from the same word as the Latin term? If your plan is for every word to match up with the symbol, nothing else should be important. Arbitrarily renaming some and not renaming others does not help anyone.

That is not my plan, and I well know it's not possible due to certain characters absent in Esperanto. My plan is, instead, to make sure every (OK except one for now) word is "closest to their Latin symbol". That's what I said.

And I hope certain proximity can help people memorize the name and symbol in pair more easily.

And I suspect you underestimate our scientist. After all most Esperantist scientists are already at least bilingual.

LizTyphone:And I hope certain proximity can help people memorize the name and symbol in pair more easily.

If someone, whose first language does not use Latin-derived terms, sees karbono for C, they will have just as much difficulty as with azoto and N, because there is an equal amount of proximity there (namely, none.) If you really wanted to make the science terminology close to it's symbol, you would sacrifice the pronunciation for spelling wherever possible (ie karbono->carbono.)

Oŝo-Jabe:(ie karbono->carbono.)

Not to mention Carbono translates roughly to the English 'tsar goodness', and then we end up with another thread like this one here.

(of course, karbono could translate roughly to 'dear good', but I find 'dear good' and 'carbon' have more in common (as carbon is dearly good for my carbon based body) than 'tsar goodness' and 'carbon' )

Iĉo:But all the best czars were carbon based!

Haha, so were some worst though~ So we see carbon doesn't make one more good than evil.

If someone, whose first language does not use Latin-derived terms, sees karbono for C, they will have just as much difficulty as with azoto and N

Like my Chinese language? Well, yeah, that won't help a lot, but certainly it won't make it any more difficult either. And I rather think adherence to Latin names can make sure the majority of language will benefit (t.e. being the most internationl).

I don't quite understand why you insist so much on "Carbono" or "Calcio", ktp. Even if they aren't spelt alike, their proximity can still be easily heard, don't you think?

Good one~

Later I found that I actually made the fallacy changing "Latin symbol" to "Latin names".

You are right, if we are talking about symbols then spelling is everything. I drop my claim that all the elements should be as close to its Latin symbol as possible. Instead I propose, that "we should render name of element so that it is close to their Latin names etymologically, or that its form has a conscientious majority in international popularity".

And then under the new criterion I again propose the recommendation of "nitrogeno" against "azoto".

LyzTyphone:Obviously a *Stibiumo* will be easier to learn and memorize. But
1. There is no such word so far.

I just found out that there actually is (a variant) of that word. Stibio is the recommendation given by this page, which tried to make a 5-rule system for the derivation of the Esperanto element names.

LyzTyphone:You are right, if we are talking about symbols then spelling is everything. I drop my claim that all the elements should be as close to its Latin symbol as possible. Instead I propose, that "we should render name of element so that it is close to their Latin names etymologically, or that its form has a conscientious majority in international popularity".

And then under the new criterion I again propose the recommendation of "nitrogeno" against "azoto".

According to this page, the clear winner in internationality is azoto.

Haha~ OK, since you are able to cite the bonlingvist site, the foundation I lay my assertions on are removed.

I think you are right on this topic; I will be looking instead how organic combounds should be named.

Thank you!

I suggest reading this link:

"Nova rigardo al la nomoj de la kemiaj elementoj en Esperanto" by Doug Portmann:
http://www.freeweb.hu/eventoj/steb/kemio/doug-po...