Mesaĝoj: 16
Lingvo: English
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-28 13:41:00
So what do you guys all think? As EO'ists, we tend to be more conservative for various reasons (although pronunciation simplifications are probably bound to happen over time). But how bout English?
I'm also now proposing a new word for EO:
sozo = a random colloquial word put into a reputable dictionary to much dismay of Grade 5 Grammar teachers.
(Just joking!)
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-28 15:14:50
As for sozo, that might be a good E-o word, if only it had a meaning. It doesn't really sound like Mi bedaŭras, so I wouldn't use it to abbreviate that. Perhaps it could be used as a name in a story.
Greyshades (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-28 15:21:45
I'd be happy to shorten words
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-28 16:11:48
Miland:'Soz' sounds like street slang. It belongs in dictionaries as much as 'LOL', but I wouldn't regard it as good English suitable for public education.Well I was joking that the meaning could be:
As for sozo, that might be a good E-o word, if only it had a meaning. It doesn't really sound like Mi bedaŭras, so I wouldn't use it to abbreviate that. Perhaps it could be used as a name in a story.
a random colloquial word put into a reputable dictionary to much dismay of Grade 5 Grammar teachers.along with such classics as 'Krokidili', 'Aligatori' and "Kie estas miaj sxlosiloj?: La gxusta metodo por plibonigi via memoro! (Nun nur £9.99!)"
- "Mia dio! Vi sozegis, Sro Vortaristo!"I personally think this -z/-zza mutation to slang variants of English words should be better studied (and taught as well) - for example, it appears also in 'tomorrow' (tomoz), and names like 'Kerry' (kez), 'Karen' (kaz), 'Mary' (mez), and (unusual) Daniel (daz), which shows that the medial R (or other voiced alveolar consonant) in bisyllable words seems most likely to make this change. Australians might find it more normal though, due to our tendency to give everything a nickname, or a nickname for a nickname (The G, aka. MCG aka. Melbourne Cricket Grounds)
It's annoying though because there's nothing I can compare this to, unless you count the Proto-Germanic shift from -az to -ar in the Northern Germanic branch of the family. Absolutely irrelevant and superfluous of me I know
Rogir (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-28 19:31:29
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-29 00:26:46
But in any case, most dictionaries are "descriptive, not prescriptive" - so they describe how the language is, not how it "should" be.
This brings great pain to my heart because it means that if people misuse a word for long enough, the "wrong" definition makes it into the official dictionary.
Like how, for example, a podium is a thing that you stand on; a lectern is a thing that you stand behind when you talk. But the thing you stand behind has been erroneously called a "podium" for long enough that that definition of "podium" in most dictionaries now includes the thing that you stand behind when you talk. Ack! Not to mention the use of "podium" at airports to describe the agents' desk at a gate of departure - it isn't even something you stand behind to lecture a crowd, it's a #*@&$-ing desk! Gack! Ok. Calm down, Erin.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-29 12:11:38
erinja:Not to mention the use of "podium" at airports to describe the agents' desk at a gate of departure - it isn't even something you stand behind to lecture a crowd, it's a #*@&$-ing desk! Gack! Ok. Calm down, Erin.
Well I have to say that I might not care so much as you, but I do find the ever changing morphology, phonology and orthography of English interesting (although, in some cases, I am irked by incorrect definitions - not so much with podia, more with things involving technical writing where you really need the right info the first read through).This brings great pain to my heart because it means that if people misuse a word for long enough, the "wrong" definition makes it into the official dictionary.Then again, if it is misused long enough, it's better in the long run if the dictionary reflects this rather than confusing everyone by feigning ignorance (either lecturers or tutors wondering what these new buzzwords their students are using, or students reading texts containing older outdated usages of words they use).
as for how language "is" and "should" be, the biggest problem is how we define "should" - is it the colloquial speech of the next generation? That play written by shakespeare? Inevitably and for me excitingly English changes so I guess it's all coloured in shades of grey
As for "Soz" = sorry. This -z mutation (for want of a better word, "mutation" reminds me of celtic grammar) is pretty easy to trace back when compared to other things we Aussies say like "Susso" (sustenance, the govt payments back in the depression), "Derro" etc.
As for being Aussie slang... Well, at first I thought it was, but apparently when saying that to my australian friends (some of which a bit too obsessed with being the best australian possible, to the extent of boganism) I was more or less verbally reprimanded for even suggesting that it was uniquely australian, they said it was American. I've now settled on that it's originally from Internet English and due to my generation and the ones after mine is becoming part of spoken colloquial English.
I don't know whether you guys (Erin and Rogir) frequent English based forums or chat rooms etc much, but if you do I'm surprised if neither of you have come across it
tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-29 12:44:43
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-29 14:02:47
tommjames:Soz is widespread in the UK, though I think mainly among youngsters. At school I remember everybody said it ("Where is your homework?! Aww soz miss, I forgot it!" etc)So you brits are to blame?
That makes sense as to why its seemingly common in Australia though, so thanks for that information! 
jan aleksan (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-29 16:11:35