შეტყობინებები: 32
ენა: English
Greyshades (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 18 ნოემბერი, 2009 03:38:13
Mi sxatas busi laboren. (8 syllables)
I suppose if you do work on it, you can shorten Esperanto and be grammatical.
Rogir (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 18 ნოემბერი, 2009 20:47:46
I suppose if you do work on it, you can shorten Esperanto and be grammatical awesome.
erinja (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 02:05:52
Greyshades:I like to take the bus to work. (8 syllables)Just a grammatical note, it isn't actually correct to say "laboren". Or for that matter, "kongresen", even though I used it in a previous message. This form -en can only be used to describe going to *places*. And "work" is not a place, and also "convention" is not a place. You would have to make that "laborejen" or "kongresejen" to be grammatical.
Mi sxatas busi laboren. (8 syllables)
Similarly, if you wanted to say to someone, I am going to swim, you shouldn't say "Mi iras naĝen". Rather, you'd say "Mi iras naĝejen" (I'm going to the swimming place).
Oŝo-Jabe (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 02:54:30
erinja:Similarly, if you wanted to say to someone, I am going to swim, you shouldn't say "Mi iras naĝen". Rather, you'd say "Mi iras naĝejen" (I'm going to the swimming place).Why not "Mi iras naĝi"?
Rogir (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 03:25:33
Note by the way that I am not translating akuzativo as accusative, because the akuzative in Esperanto is a whole lot more than just an accusative.
Miland (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 11:14:27
Rogir:Hmmm, interesting point.Konsentite! In PMEG we have: N-finaĵo povas aperi post E-vortoj nur por montri direkton, neniam por montri objekton, mezuron aŭ tempopunkton. I translate: "The N-ending can appear after words ending -E only to show direction, never to show an object, measure or point in time." Thus if the location of an event were well-known, like a kongreso, we might use kongresen to indicate direction, but I am more doubtful about using laboro to indicate direction.
jan aleksan (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 12:25:30
tommjames (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 12:41:02
erinja:and also "convention" is not a placeThe point about en having to describe a movement towards a place is of course completely correct, but the key issue as I see it is whether or not a particular word actually does show a place, or at least can do so under the right contextual circumstances.
This doesn't appear to me to be anything fixed in stone at all. There are many words in which location is intrinsic to it's meaning (tie, ekstere, lernejo, Vaŝingtono etc), but there are also many others which can and often do imply location simply due to the way they are used or reasoned about by convention. For example lito is just a bed, but it often has the connotative meaning of "the place where I sleep", in much the same way as hejmo has the more intrinsic meaning of "the place where I reside", or urbo means "place where many civic and municipal buildings are situated". And I've seen liten and other words used in a similar way quite often (there are actually some results for liten in Tekstaro).
Whether or not kongreso can work this way is perhaps debatable but to my mind there's no reason it can't. Although every congress takes place in a different literal location (usually) I think the figurative location of "place where people convene" or "place where we are going to convene" is quite valid, and in context kongresen would undoubtedly be quite clear in referring to the place where the congress is to take place.
I agree with the point about laboro though. Since the root labor' is a verb, the idea of an action being a location is clearly absurd.
Greyshades (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 17:21:31
Just a grammatical note, it isn't actually correct to say "laboren". Or for that matter, "kongresen", even though I used it in a previous message. This form -en can only be used to describe going to *places*. And "work" is not a place, and also "convention" is not a place. You would have to make that "laborejen" or "kongresejen" to be grammatical.That is really good point, thank you for clarifying. I would then probably say "Mi sxatas busi al laboro" or "Mi sxatas busi por labori." Either way racks the sentence up to whopping 9 syllables!!!
Similarly, if you wanted to say to someone, I am going to swim, you shouldn't say "Mi iras naĝen". Rather, you'd say "Mi iras naĝejen" (I'm going to the swimming place).
Lol, I just enjoy poking fun at Esperanto, however much I like the language
erinja (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 19 ნოემბერი, 2009 19:16:59
Miland: Thus if the location of an event were well-known, like a kongreso, we might use kongresen to indicate direction, but I am more doubtful about using laboro to indicate direction.I think the PMEG is pretty clear on this point. It says that you can use -en with a location; it doesn't talk about whether this location is well-known or not. To me, a kongreso is not a location, period. A kongreso happens in a place - a kongresejo. In PMEG it also says that you can't say 'renkonten'. Presumably this meeting is happening in a fixed place that the speaker or the listener is aware of, but it doesn't mean you can use the -n ending.