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Eo Words are... Long

de Greyshades, 28 d’octubre de 2009

Missatges: 32

Llengua: English

Greyshades (Mostra el perfil) 28 d’octubre de 2009 15.50.27

Not too long to remember or anything, it's just that all nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs are all at least 2 syllables. It's a challenge to speak Esperanto fast in my head when every syllable is important (ie. "Mi atentas vin." and "Mi antendas lin."). Even mishearing the -as/-os/-is in a verb can greatly change the meaning...

So what's my point? Honestly, I don't really have one. Just a little friendly rant from Greyshades rido.gif

Oh, I do have a question. Are there any *colloquial* idioms in Esperanto other than the few obvious ones like "nedankinde" and "por ke"? For example, is there an idiomatic equivlant for "it's raining cats and dogs"? Or is it possible to make one and be somewhat understood?

jan aleksan (Mostra el perfil) 28 d’octubre de 2009 16.22.50

Don't be offended, but I think that speedness of speech matters for english speakers more than others.

I remember a guy who couldn't bother the word "estas" because it has 2 phonemes and "be" have one. He forgot to mention that "to be" has 2.

I guess that's why an english speaker has created the Speedword (an other artificial language supposed to be fast spoken).

But that's ok, and it can be proved that english is faster spoken that for example french, with "est-ce que" for "cxu": "est-ce que tu cours?"= "do you run?" = "ren je?" in dutch.

I guess that chinese people consider our latinalphabet words reeeally long. There was in a other thread a text written in chinese and the same written in english. It was 4 time longer.

To finish, I think some word are long, like multekosta ("cher" french), malsanulejo, or tujmesagxilo, but some things can be said with very few morphemes.
ekz: blankigxas=it's becoming white.

ridulo.gif,

ceigered (Mostra el perfil) 28 d’octubre de 2009 16.37.59

I concur with your analysis, Shades. However, luckily, many stems themselves are short (e.g. eg, grand, bel, knab (or 'nab for your colloquial EO list). My biggest problems are probably consonant clusters and things like that though (sc is also annoying, and I find it strange for zamenhoff to go with 'sc' instead of 'sk' like the classical latin pronunciation)

The reason words get even longer is probably coz of a, e, i, o, u, as, is, os, us, etc. However it's likely that in later natural stages of EO they will be made redundant similarly to the way languages like English have made their word endings redundant.

Sed mi ne zorg, ne 'stas eg problem, jo? rido.gif

Just remember and practice the long forms, that way you'll be able to speak 100% correct Esperanto formally, and then when you find someone else who goes "Oh long words suck!" you can have some fun with them rideto.gif

Kio signifas 'por ke' komun-uz-Esperante? Is that a Hispanicised "because" or does it mean something else because I saw it in a text today and went "Ki~?"

@ Jan Alekson - Actually, I always though French and Spanish were MUCH faster than English, so it's probably the illusion created by hearing a language that's not native to oneself lango.gif

And in colloquial Australian English "it's becoming white" can become "isgenuxai' / isgenvai' " (a rough rendition in Esperanto orthography, really 'It's getting white').

Rogir (Mostra el perfil) 28 d’octubre de 2009 19.29.41

No, no ceigered, that would be counterfundamental! There is another point here though: Because Esperanto only has 5 vowels, words can be pronounced faster and still be understood. In practice I have met few people who actually speak that fast, but it's their second language.

LyzTyphone (Mostra el perfil) 29 d’octubre de 2009 2.50.42

I seems to though, that the speed of speech are not neccessarily dependent on the length of words. But I am not sure...

I would like to do a little test, can an English speaker help me count the syllables of the following two texts. I personally felt that it will only be fair to count a long syllable as, I don't know, 2 or 1.5 syllables? But I am not that good at English to be capable of precisely identifying a long syllables...

First text will be Lord's Prayer (whichever Protestant version you like. It will be even better if you can do all of them~)

The following are EO and Chinese results
EO version (Zamenhofa traduko): 109
Chinese version (Chinese Union Version): 99

Second text will be the UDHR Article I
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
The following are EO and Chinese results
EO version (ĉe sources.wikipedia.org): 55
Chinese version (UN): 35

ceigered (Mostra el perfil) 29 d’octubre de 2009 12.11.41

I'd help if I had a microphone - maybe my iPhone mic will suffice.

Rogir:No, no ceigered, that would be counterfundamental!
Oh no, what evil have I unleashed upon the world! rido.gif
What exactly were you insinuating as counterfundamental though (I mean, at least one point in every post I make is counterfundamental by nature, so I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically lango.gif).

I can't see language evolution being counter fundamental though, not that it'll really affect us unless biological immortality is discovered sometime soon okulumo.gif but anyway I do agree that the simplistic 5 vowel nature allows for fast speech even if vowel qualities vary - very good point mia amiko!

Miland (Mostra el perfil) 29 d’octubre de 2009 14.26.54

Rogir:No, no ceigered, that would be counterfundamental!
This reminds me of a scene in the film Reds starring Warren Beatty and Diane Keaton set in the Russian revolution where a train that Beatty is travelling on is attacked. The characters playing Bolshevik officials cry out "Counter-revolutionaries!"

Rogir (Mostra el perfil) 29 d’octubre de 2009 15.58.32

However it's likely that in later natural stages of EO they will be made redundant similarly to the way languages like English have made their word endings redundant.
This one. I know that languages evolve, but if Esperanto would lose its endings a great deal of its easiness and character would be gone.

Greyshades (Mostra el perfil) 29 d’octubre de 2009 16.12.23

Sed mi ne zorg, ne 'stas eg problem, jo?
Funny, I understood that better than most Esperanto I read rido.gif

Anyways, as the "por ke" thing goes, I thought it as a false friend to Spanish's "porque". From what I've seen Esperanto, "por ke" means something like "in order to", simliar to (correct me if I'm wrong) "para" in Spanish.

I play soccer to have fun.
Juego futbol para divertirme.
Mi ludas futbalon por ke amuziĝi.

RiotNrrd (Mostra el perfil) 29 d’octubre de 2009 21.07.19

Esperanto words are longer than in English, but its sentences tend to be shorter.

So you lose one way, and win the other.

Tornar a dalt