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Translating Song Lyrics from En to Eo, unsure

by Scalex, November 12, 2009

Messages: 11

Language: English

Scalex (User's profile) November 12, 2009, 3:09:13 PM

As little exercises, I've taken to translating various things, and I thought I'd try a song - in this case, Regina Spektor's "Laughing With".

The first verse:
No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one’s laughing at God
When they’re starving or freezing or so very poor
So far, I've run into the following problems:

[LISTO]
I'm not sure whether to say "neniu riras" or "oni ne riras"
Would "at" in this case translate to "cxe", or "al" ? Although al doesn't directly translate as "at", I thought that cxe only denoted physical proximity.
for the third line, would you say the same as the first two, or would it be "neniu estas rirado kiam...
I can't find the word for "starve"[/list]Song lyrics seem to be more difficult to translate that straightforward conversation...

tommjames (User's profile) November 12, 2009, 3:31:53 PM

Scalex:I'm not sure whether to say "neniu riras" or "oni ne riras"
My own preference would be for neniu as it seems to me slightly stronger and clearer in meaning than oni ne, but I think in practice both are ok. By the way, you need ridas and not riras.

Scalex:Would "at" in this case translate to "cxe", or "al" ? Although al doesn't directly translate as "at", I thought that cxe only denoted physical proximity.
In my opinion al is clearer in meaning but ĉe can be used for this. It appears in the Fundamenta Krestomatio and the old testament translation of the bible, as well as other classic works. Whether it's used in more modern prose I'm not so sure.

Scalex:for the third line, would you say the same as the first two, or would it be "neniu estas rirado kiam...
I'd translate the 3rd line as Neniu ridas al Dio kiam malsatega aŭ tiom malriĉa. You don't want ridado there as that's the gerund form. If you're looking for the continuous participle that would be estas ridanta, but I wouldn't personally bother with it.

Scalex:I can't find the word for "starve"
To show extreme hunger, I'd use malsatega. To show the process of starving I'd say malnutriĝi.
Song lyrics seem to be more difficult to translate that straightforward conversation...
Aint that the truth!

Hope this helps.

Miland (User's profile) November 12, 2009, 3:36:20 PM

Translating English songs into Esperanto can be difficult, because English has a large stock of small words, and so to preserve the rhythm of the sounds you may have to settle for approximate ways of making the same impression.
But to turn to your specific points: 'No-one' is neniu; 'laughs (at)' is mokas or priridas. For 'at' I would use al (or the accusative Dion and omit the preposition altogether), because ĉe means 'at' someone's house or 'at' an event. For the third line, if you just wanted to say it differently you could use the other way of saying 'laughs at' than you used for the first two lines. 'To hunger' is malsati, and to have the extreme 'to starve' you could use the affix eg: malsategi. To translate the line, Kiam ili malsategas aŭ malvarmegas aŭ malriĉegas may be one possibility.

Scalex (User's profile) November 12, 2009, 6:13:50 PM

I'm unsure as to what exactly "pri" does when attached on the front of a verb - in this case, how it makes ridas different to priridas?

Having thought about transitive and intransitive verbs, it kind of makes sense to me if ridi means to laugh, as in "I laughed.", and ridigi means to laugh at something "I laughed at the TV program". The difference from the two being that ridas does not have an object, whereas ridigas does. From this logic, (if I'm right about ridis being intransitive) it would seem that ridigis would be the best choice.

Either way, if the verb is "to laugh at", it makes sense to use -n, rather than al, so I agree with Miland on that point.
I'd translate the 3rd line as Neniu ridas al Dio kiam malsatega aŭ tiom malriĉa.
Is it being made clear that "nobody", the thing being described by the adjectives malsatega, etc, in this sentence, and not God? If so, how would you do the opposite?

- eg: When saying "Mi ne mangxas torto kiam malvarma" - is this saying that I wouldn't eat pie when I'm cold, or when the pie is cold?
EDIT:[/u] As soon as I posted this, I realised the answer - the lack of subject marker on the adjectives mean they don't refer to God, or pie.

Finally, I thought about using frosta/frostas, povra/povras for freezing and starving (adj or verb for Miland or tommjames method). There doesn't seem to be a way to get around the length of the word "malsategas", but given the pace of the song, I think the line could be sung in such a way that accomodates it.

Miland (User's profile) November 12, 2009, 6:25:16 PM

Scalex:I'm unsure as to what exactly "pri" does when attached on the front of a verb - in this case, how it makes ridas different to priridas?
Pri means 'about' (in the sense that a book may be 'about' a subject), so ridi is to laugh, not necessarily at anything. Priridi is to laugh about, or at, something or someone.

Note that ridigi means to make someone else laugh (which a comedian does). To ridicule or make something ridiculous would be ridindigi.

tommjames (User's profile) November 12, 2009, 7:54:08 PM

Scalex:
I'd translate the 3rd line as Neniu ridas al Dio kiam malsatega aŭ tiom malriĉa.
Is it being made clear that "nobody", the thing being described by the adjectives malsatega, etc, in this sentence, and not God? If so, how would you do the opposite?

- eg: When saying "Mi ne mangxas torto kiam malvarma" - is this saying that I wouldn't eat pie when I'm cold, or when the pie is cold?
EDIT:[/u] As soon as I posted this, I realised the answer - the lack of subject marker on the adjectives mean they don't refer to God, or pie.
Esperanto doesn't have a subject marker so I'm slightly unsure what you're referring to there. There's the object marker but there is no object in the sentence here, so either way I'd say the translation is indeed ambiguous as you originally supposed.

In this instance however I'd say context is sufficient to clear up the ambiguity (we don't normally think of God as a being who can be "starving, freezing and poor" so I think it's clear who we're referring to.

Greyshades (User's profile) November 13, 2009, 12:57:29 AM

I'm also translating a song from En to Eo (something I love to do), and I was working with Lifehouse's "Storm".

The first line is as follows: How long have I been in this storm?

"How long have I been" is a phrase I really am not sure how to translate. Any help would be appreciated rideto.gif

Oh, and "getting away with murder". Any ideas?

tommjames (User's profile) November 13, 2009, 10:40:06 AM

Greyshades:"How long have I been" is a phrase I really am not sure how to translate. Any help would be appreciated
Kiom longe mi estas en tiu ĉi ŝtormo? would be my translation.

Greyshades:Oh, and "getting away with murder". Any ideas?
Hmm tough one. Perhaps eskapi senpunite pro krimo (literally: to escape unpunished for a crime) or something like that?

Miland (User's profile) November 13, 2009, 11:12:26 AM

Greyshades:"getting away with murder". Any ideas?
This is an idiom, and so the translation depends on the context. For example the meaning might be "being allowed to do things that other people would be punished or criticized for" e.g. "Dave gets away with murder because he's so charming". This could be translated Davido eskapas kritikon pro tio, ke li estas tiel ĉarma.

On the other hand, the meaning might be "not being punished for bad behavior", e.g. "Kids these days get away with murder in school". might be Nuntempe oni ne punas infanojn en lernejo pro iu ajn malbonkonduto"

ceigered (User's profile) November 13, 2009, 1:32:20 PM

Miland:"Kids these days get away with murder in school"
Quite a jolly bad situation we're in then.

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