The more I write and pay attention to grammar and vocabulary, the more I am dismayed by the messiness of English. I am precociously attentive to using proper grammar and vocabulary when writing something official, and it overflows into all of my life making me analyze everybody's word usage and causing me to always pause to choose the right words or proper phrasing. It is all such a mess.

On top of all that, I suck at English, my only fluent language.

Does anyone know what I mean? I have studied some Esperanto but am still pretty shaky. But I wonder if it is better with its extreme regularity? Is it more comfortable to speak and write in than English or a natural language? Does anyone share my obsessiveness over trying to be perfect in the gnarled mess of English? Is that obsession pacified within Esperanto?

As far as English goes, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it. The great mass of people in the US and abroad tend to misuse our language in sundry and creative ways. A slip of the tongue here and there will probably be missed by most people.

I mention this because you simply can't be self-conscious when you learn a new language. The simple fact of the matter is that you are going to make mistakes. It is best to make friends with that fact, accept it, embrace it, and not shy away from it. Too many people are so afraid of making a mistake in their new language that they never use it. Because of this, they never improve. They fall into a vicious cycle which ends with them throwing their hands in the air in disgust.

In short, just start telling yourself that it really doesn't matter.

Rule 1) Don't sweat the small stuff.
Rule 2) Realize that it's all small stuff.

BradP:Does anyone share my obsessiveness over trying to be perfect in the gnarled mess of English? Is that obsession pacified within Esperanto?

If you wish to develop a clear English style, you might find helpful The Complete Plain Words by Sir Ernest Gowers. You can also read an older edition for free online.

Concerning your second question, Esperanto is designed to be as regular as possible, and this feature may well appeal to you. But to become proficient takes time, and andogigi is absolutely right - 'don't sweat it' is excellent and indeed necessary advice for someone learning a language. It's like learning to walk and run from scratch. Be prepared for plenty of stumbling!

andogigi:Rule 1) Don't sweat the small stuff.
Rule 2) Realize that it's all small stuff.

These are epics words right here.

@ BradP

Well I'd have to say that I think everyone starts to share your sentiments after learning a new, more regular and logical language than English. But then I guess after a while you start to realise that English's imperfections etc aren't actually that bigger deal, and I myself have even started to crave all those imperfections or idiosyncrasies (one of the reasons I like Danish, which is very similar to English in a number of ways - just hard to learn with such limited resources out there).

So it's probably just momentary discontentment with your mother tongue caused by the novel ideas and concepts in the new language you're learning.

BradP:On top of all that, I suck at English, my only fluent language.

Just wanted to point out that he's not trying to learn English, just moan about it.
Anyway I for one agree, English is messy and I'm ok with that for ordinary chatting etc. because when it's learnt from childhood none of the irregularities are obvious, but I hate the fact that so many people have to learn it later in life for tourism and business, which is why I'm here really. Vivu Esperanto!

Re: The irregularity of English

Just wanted to share a story with you on this topic. When children are between the ages of 2 and 3 years, they learn that language has rules, and then the tend to over apply these rules. Often with humorous results.

When my youngest child was at this stage, he walked into the living room and slapped the coffee table as hard as he could, which startled everyone. Then he announced proudly, "I hit the table hardly!"

Well, yes, but ...

I prefer descriptivism as opposed to prescriptivism, which is basically based on how language is used by people instead of how it "should" be used.

Lunombrulino:Re: The irregularity of English

Then he announced proudly, "I hit the table hardly!"

Well, yes, but ...

Hehe

BradP:The more I write and pay attention to grammar and vocabulary, the more I am dismayed by the messiness of English. I am precociously attentive to using proper grammar and vocabulary when writing something official, and it overflows into all of my life making me analyze everybody's word usage and causing me to always pause to choose the right words or proper phrasing. It is all such a mess.

On top of all that, I suck at English, my only fluent language.

Does anyone know what I mean? I have studied some Esperanto but am still pretty shaky. But I wonder if it is better with its extreme regularity? Is it more comfortable to speak and write in than English or a natural language? Does anyone share my obsessiveness over trying to be perfect in the gnarled mess of English? Is that obsession pacified within Esperanto?

I'm a native Spanish speaker, but I also speak/write English and French with the same fluency, mainly because I learned all three languages simultaneously in my childhood.

The best tip I can give you though, is to let your intuition do most of the work. Grammar is a bit like the million little things which you have to pay attention to when you're driving: at the beginning, when you're learning, it's normal that you'd feel overwhelmed by all that. But as you gain practice, you let technique take a back seat and you begin to trust your intuition because your brain assimilates an increasing amount of reflexes. If, in order to swim, you had to focus on every single muscle flexion, you'd never float

I think that trying to be perfect has little relevance in any context. What counts is whether or not you are able to communicate efficiently, that is: to send a message (verbally or in written form) and to have the receiver of that message interpret it the way you intend it to be interpreted. This is difficult enough without having to deal with the hastle of grammar.

English is a bit chaotic, I'll agree. It's illogikal, but like anything, it takes practice and a fair amount of repetition. The same is true for playing guitar, or for practicing martial arts .

I consider myself to have a fairly extensive vocabulary in English, and even so, when I talk to my wife (we speak English at home), we often find ourselves inventing new words in English by using Esperanto's logic.

As an example, if I were to talk to her about sending a message, as I mentioned earlier, I would tell her that I have to choose between doing it verbally or "writingly", and Esperanto's logic would allow us to understand each other in interpreting "writingly" as "in written form". Nothing prevents us from introducing these novel simplifications to English in our daily lives. Some terms are even picking up with our friends and relatives

Take it chill, and try to take pleasure in your analysis of languages when you notice a particular aspect in them. That's what I do

Thanks for all of your replies. My post might have been a little negative, but you all gave good advice and make good points. Esperanto must really be a language of peace.