Mesaĝoj: 19
Lingvo: English
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-04 19:11:27
Miland:Benson has antaŭĝui for 'look forward to', and it appears that this has come to mean 'enjoy in anticipation'I'm not a fan of Benson and he definitely makes some choices I don't agree with in his dictionary (the famed "bensonaĵoj"). I wonder what Wells has to say on this topic?
The tekstaro actually seems to be about evenly split between uses of antaŭĝui and antaŭĝoji, but antaŭĝui simply does not make logical sense to me, so you won't find me using it or recommending it. And maybe I have been mis-hearing people for all of these years, but I haven't really been hearing people use "antaŭĝui" in my years speaking Esperanto.
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-05 14:07:09
erinja:I'm not a fan of Benson..I wonder what Wells has to say on this topic?Benson has his critics, not without justification. I was surprised (and mystified) to be able to confirm the finding of an amazon reviewer that he doesn't have 'coconut'. On the other hand the late Don Harlow praised his work.
Antaŭ- words meaning 'look forward to' are in none of the standard dictionaries I looked up - Wells, Butler, even PIV 2005. I didn't find them in PMEG. This suggests that they are considered to be compound words which are not too difficult to interpret, at least in context.
My best information is that Wells' dictionary may be available in a new edition in the next few months, so this should be worth looking out for.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-05 18:23:00
Miland:Benson has his critics, not without justification. I was surprised (and mystified) to be able to confirm the finding of an amazon reviewer that he doesn't have 'coconut'. On the other hand the late Don Harlow praised his work.What Don says on his page is mostly true. Benson has a lot of words in his dictionary. His dictionary is written in American English, which makes some things easier for Americans. And it is by far the most up-to-date En-Eo dictionary, and has a lot of modern terms that the old dictionaries lack. It gives a lot of explanations. As Don mentions, it's good for translators (because it has a lot of words). Benson has its uses.
However.
I don't like to recommend it to beginners, because it can give the reader a false impression of how well-accepted certain words are. Most of these are marked out; Benson marks out his own neologisms. But in some cases, a beginner can't distinguish, and may come away with the false impression that some weird anglicism is the most common word for something.
I never heard the coconut thing, it's an interesting oversight!
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-05 19:12:28
erinja:I never heard the coconut thing, it's an interesting oversight!I just looked at Benson again. He has "Cocos, kokosarbo" where "Cocos" is not in bold, marking it as a non-English term. The word means "coconut-palm". So the dictionary contains an Esperanto equivalent which is a compound word, but does not have its crucial component, and the translated word isn't a common English word either.
However I have not found an email address for writing to Peter Benson.
Kraughne (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-08 04:29:43
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-08 10:21:58
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-08 11:47:01
Kraughne:Benson or no Benson, what about...esperi al? It might be lame, but it's a bit better than antaŭĝoji/-ĝui. Or maybe, even better: esperumi al.I would have written that as "esperi pri" - but that's simply because when I read "al" I'm expecting some form of physical movement or positioning to be involved as well.
Kraughne (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-09 06:53:18
ceigered:I would have written that as "esperi pri" - but that's simply because when I read "al" I'm expecting some form of physical movement or positioning to be involved as well.Same here, and I was close to discrediting esper/-umi al because of that. But then I remembered we have such expressions as kredi al and enamiĝi al (which I really like, by the way ^_^), neither of which involve physical space or action, yet they still convey direction. So when you think of it like that...it makes sense. Sort of.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-09 08:50:06
Kraughne:Ah that makes sense, I was just worried that it'd be a hard concept to relate to for some speakersceigered:I would have written that as "esperi pri" - but that's simply because when I read "al" I'm expecting some form of physical movement or positioning to be involved as well.Same here, and I was close to discrediting esper/-umi al because of that. But then I remembered we have such expressions as kredi al and enamiĝi al (which I really like, by the way ^_^), neither of which involve physical space or action, yet they still convey direction. So when you think of it like that...it makes sense. Sort of.
(that said, now that I think about it I think most languages have some form of misused-dative case, e.g. using "to" in a much more abstract way).