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LANGUAGE WITHOUT GRAMMAR

de Francisko1, 2009-decembro-14

Mesaĝoj: 21

Lingvo: English

Francisko1 (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-14 20:26:54

Hello

I think that the english language is language without grammar. For that reason, the people can't have understanding in that language. Only if the conversation is very easy. Do you think like that? Thank you.

Getuls Francisko

Vilius (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-14 20:32:11

Francisko1:For that reason, the people can't have understanding in that language. Only if the conversation is very easy. Do you think like that?
Well, a huuuuge number of English speaking scientists, philosophers and other smart guys wouldn't agree with you. Neither do I rido.gif

Rogir (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-14 21:16:34

Maybe it is for many people who use it as a bridge language but haven't studied it intensively.

Frankouche (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-14 22:10:06

Words are not a language and they need grammar to make an intelligible concept.

orthohawk (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-15 00:20:26

We have to remember that "grammar" doesn't just mean morphology (the changes in the forms of words); it's also the semantics, phonology, syntax, in other words, all the rules that exist in a language to compose sentenses, phrases and word building.

So the vaunted "16 Rules" is really a misnomer; a rather sad one at that, since this is one of the reason the linguistics community points at the Esperanto movement and laughs.

Pharoah (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-15 02:02:50

Formalism wise, I think that a language without grammar would consist of only terminal symbols. In English, this means interjections free of context. You would need a unique word to encapsulate every thought, not easy at all.

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-15 07:05:43

English has the approximately the same amount if not more grammar than say Spanish, French, Japanese, Chinese, Hungarian or Polar-bear speak (GROWL!). Okay, so maybe Polar bear's don't use grammar at all.... rideto.gif

But the point is that English has grammar and uses it.

For example, coming from a European perspective:
- 3rd person present tense: -s (e.g. in Eng, Latin and Esp: he senses, is sentit, él siente)
- Past participle: -ed (e.g. Eng, Esp: sensed, sentido
- Adjective-noun relationships: adjective goes before the noun, some adjectives retain proper adjective endings (e.g. English -y comes from -ig, which is related to Italian, Spanish -ico/-ica)

In a more general sense, English also has rules about how words relate, how sentences are formed, about word order, about pronunciation - all these form grammar. For English not to have grammar would be very strange, as all human languages pretty much have grammar, and it is theorised that even dolphins use grammar (albeit more complicated).

What I guess can confused people and convince them there is no grammar in English are the lack of inflectional endings (although ask many and they will say that's a godsend lango.gif), the amount of similar reduced forms of words/particles (e.g. English 's (is) and 's (reduced genitive case)).

As for English being hard to understand, that's just a lack of experience or practice with the language. I can't understand Finnish at all and that has beautiful grammar lango.gif

darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-16 06:42:01

Well I guesses English real has grammar no. After all you still able understand I, huh?

Seriously: English does have a lot of grammar, really. Maybe in some dialects people don't obey it, but the grammar still exists and at least I as a foreign need to obey it okulumo.gif

Miland (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-16 16:41:33

The living structure of a language is not the same thing as 'grammar' as treated in textbooks. It's a bit like comparing unspoken but real customs to written codes. Esperanto had a 'given' structure, but the way that words are used still evolve. Natural languages do not have codified grammars to begin with, and begin with customs in the way that words are used or modified to convey meaning. Attempts to describe the structure of the language and place it in an orderly system come later.

Polaris (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-16 22:12:56

Francisko1:Hello

I think that the english language is language without grammar. For that reason, the people can't have understanding in that language. Only if the conversation is very easy. Do you think like that? Thank you.

Getuls Francisko
I can't BEGIN to imagine what gives you the impression that English doesn't have grammar or that people can't understand on another. As a person who has studied other languages, I have grown to appreciate English as a remarkable, incredibly rich, intricate language.

In English, words can change from one part of speech to another based on their position. The word SCHOOL is a noun, but if I say "these are my school books", then the word is being used as an adjective. This ability to tie words together compactly makes it possible to create meanings in ways that almost resemble agglutinative languages, and this is only one example.

The vocabulary of English makes it possible to express incredibly fine shades of meaning that are difficult for non-native speakers to truly grasp. In what other language can I labor or work, perspire or sweat, constructed edifices or build buildings, look into church business or deal with ecclesiastical affairs...and I could go on and on and on.

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