Mesaĝoj: 17
Lingvo: English
hannah40077 (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 12:24:56
Also, which word should I use for "since"? I want to say since a year, e.g. since 1905. Thirdly, is Esperanto like other Romance languages- does it use the present tense for since?
Dankon!
dimichxp (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 12:34:41
hannah40077:I want to say "Esperanto has (barely) changed since...".Esperanto apenaŭ ŝanĝiĝis ekde (la 1905a (jaro)).
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 12:46:16
hannah40077:Thirdly, is Esperanto like other Romance languages- does it use the present tense for since?That depends on what you want to say. In your example sentence you do use -is, because you want to say that no change has happened in the past.
However, for example "I've been living in this house since 1985" would be "Mi loĝas en ĉi tiu domo ekde 1985", because you're still living there.
I think English is pretty illogical in that it uses the perfect tense after "since" even if the action still takes place...
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 13:08:27
Esperanto should use the past tense with "since" if only to stay on the safe side.
Regarding the pluperfect tense, that'd be like saying "Esperanto had barely changed since", and perfect would be "Esperanto has barely changed since" (what you wrote), so it depends what you want. I normally tend to speak (well, write, I barely speak in EO) in just the normal tenses, but I think the pluperfect and perfect can be mirrored in Esperanto like so (or check this link):
- Past tense (Esperanto barely changed since): ŝanĝiĝis, (io/iu) ŝanĝis esperanton
- Perfect tense (Esperanto has barely changed): estas ŝanĝita*/estas ŝanĝiĝinta/ŝanĝiĝintas
- Pluperfect (Esperanto had barely changed): estis ŝanĝita*/estis ŝanĝiĝinta/ŝanĝiĝintis
*These forms imply that another party has changed EO, rather than EO becoming changed or changing itself. In this case transitivity should not cause problems, as the -ita form already shows well enough that something else has done acted upon the subject. The inta/inti forms should be alright, but there's a LOT of syllables in just one word when iĝint- is added onto a verb, which may overwhelm the reader.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 13:15:58
darkweasel:I think English is pretty illogical in that it uses the perfect tense after "since" even if the action still takes place...We don't - I've forgotten the name, but it's even more complicated due to the prevalence of -ing verb forms.
Example - "I have been eating since (the day on which I was born)". If we don't care about whether the action still takes place, then the perfect tense is "perfect" for the job (pun intended
) hannah40077 (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 13:20:22
Dankon!
Rogir (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-13 22:49:16
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-14 03:22:47
Rogir:I would like to make a little note here: especially if you're a beginner, use only the simple forms -is, -as, -os, that is usually correct and easier to understand.Excellent advice, and I fully agree.
One of the problems beginners (and even intermediates) often face is the urge to translate from the English word for word. It takes a while before realizing that very often the participle/perfect forms (which are VERY common in English) really CAN be expressed just as well with the simple tenses in Esperanto. This isn't always the case, of course, and sometimes you really do want the extra information the complex forms carry. But seriously, most of the time it doesn't matter, and when it doesn't matter, always choose the simpler form over the more complex form.
As an example, a beginner is more apt to translate
"I was talking to him"
as
"Mi estis parolanta al li"
because it maps more closely to the English structure. But... yuck. Most of the time
"Mi parolis al li"
would be the better choice.
orthohawk (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-14 04:56:05
ceigered:Your sentence uses the present perfect progressive tense.darkweasel:I think English is pretty illogical in that it uses the perfect tense after "since" even if the action still takes place...We don't - I've forgotten the name, but it's even more complicated due to the prevalence of -ing verb forms.
Example - "I have been eating since (the day on which I was born)". If we don't care about whether the action still takes place, then the perfect tense is "perfect" for the job (pun intended
dimo, one-time grammar teacher.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-14 08:37:45
RiotNrrd:True, but considering this is meant to be a project... How does one write in "essay" or other technical writing forms in Esperanto? Generally, in technical writing, one tries to use the most precise language possible (in the most simplest terms), and that also includes tense (e.g. "one candidate was eating then started to cough up blood" and "one candidate ate then coughed up blood" have some differences in their meanings). Any thoughts? Maybe the use of time-based adverbs could allow simpler verb tenses with the same amount of precision? Or maybe more complex verb forms would just be simpler than having tonnes of temporal adverbs everywhere.Rogir:I would like to make a little note here: especially if you're a beginner, use only the simple forms -is, -as, -os, that is usually correct and easier to understand.Excellent advice, and I fully agree.
One of the problems beginners (and even intermediates) often face is the urge to translate from the English word for word.
Orthohawk:Your sentence uses the present perfect progressive tense.I was right - it is more complicated than the perfect tense
