Esperanto moves forward with a change
de paksu, 22 ianuarie 2010
Contribuții/Mesaje: 80
Limbă: English
ceigered (Arată profil) 22 ianuarie 2010, 12:23:44
LyzTyphone: "Ajsak Njuton" (and the -ton part corrupts for lack of /ə/).Technically it should be "Ajzak" just to make things even more complicated!
(I personally like Isaak Novurbet'
, just joking!) 
jan aleksan (Arată profil) 22 ianuarie 2010, 18:06:37
I got to say, even if the proposition can be argued, that the addition of another vowel is useless, and can be damageable for certain people. Example people who speaks arabic use only 3 vowel (A I U), and not e (well in fact it depend where you live). So for them, the aparrition of a schwa would be a problem).
But, it can be useful to add it within consonnant cluster which is hard to pronounce.
PS: now I'm not sure, is /ə/ a schwa?
ceigered (Arată profil) 22 ianuarie 2010, 18:34:07
jan aleksan:PS: now I'm not sure, is /ə/ a schwa?Oui, c'est vrai
paksu (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 00:51:54
So in conclusion, if those sounds would be added, you would be speaking a different language.How many latin words and other diclects been added to English language, would that make English a different language ?
Vilinilo (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 00:59:44
c, ĉ (or ŝ), ĝ (or ĵ), ĥ, l (or r).
As a bonus, we could eliminate all the "ĉapelataj" letters:
x or c could be used in lieu of ŝ (or ĉ).
j instead of ĵ (or ĝ).
y instead of j.
w instead of ŭ.
But, of course, in that case it wouldn't be Esperanto, but one more Esperantido with no future and no relevance.
paksu (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 01:06:09
If you want Esperantists to pronounce your name correctly, you can leave them in their native spelling. Then when people ask you you can teach them how to prounounce. This way other Esperantists also get to learn about the Bahasa language. Isn't that great?It is not to make me happy. It is not for me as it is for the community of Esperantisits to be closer to the targeted community.
Respect is of most valuable word in the process of translation. The cultural sensitivity must be taken into account.
For example Malaysia is not pronouced as Malajzio.
I don't think in my life of more than 5 decades i pronouce this word--Malay, as /a/ but it is in /ə/, even in the English dictionary is stated.
How would I tell the world it is wrongly pronouced when the translation process has distorted it.
We must be realistic that the internet is going faster than the feet. We don't see the person to person that often.
paksu (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 01:20:30
...Well, tell that to a Japanese. And I have to confess even today I can't roll my R correctly.It is a personal talent in it. Many Japanese could speak excellent English with American accent.
We cannot base on the personal dislike to change the language. What i proposed is making the language more beautiful and widely accepted.
OK so you agree with me that fewer vowels there are, less people have to fear about misproununciation right?What i said is the accent but not pronouciation. The Chinese CCTV English channel has many good speakers of English but with Chinese accent.
RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 02:45:45
Also, there are many words that can be formed with the "th" sound that Malaysian could have, but doesn't because that sound is missing. Why not just add the "th" sound to Malaysian? Think of all the new words you could have! Plus, it would make learning the language easier for native English speakers.
I know these proposals probably sound funny to you, but don't you think it sounds just as funny to want to add or subtract sounds from Esperanto?
paksu (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 03:58:26
Instead of adding the "~e" sound to Esperanto, why don't you just remove the sound from Malaysian? Certainly, removing the sound from your language would make the learning of Esperanto a bit easier, wouldn't it? At least, no one would miss it in Esperanto.Common, the Malay language is not borne in Malaysia. It is the migration from Indonesia, just as English is not borne in England, be sensible in the course of discussion.
I know these proposals probably sound funny to you, but don't you think it sounds just as funny to want to add or subtract sounds from Esperanto?It has nothing funny to add or subtract sounds from Esperanto, please be reminded all language evolve from simple to complete.
Furthermore Esperanto is a constructed language, can the creator of Esperanto in a century ago know the happenings in the side of the globe? If not, then , it is time for us to perfect the language.
If you have nothing substantial to support your view, my advice is best do a reserach in linguistic before putting forward your thought.
RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 23 ianuarie 2010, 04:42:41
paksu:...it is time for us to perfect the language.I draw a distinction between a language evolving, and a language being consciously developed.
What you are talking about is not evolution, but construction. Esperanto has moved past the construction phase. It is a full language, just like your native language is. If adding or subtracting sounds from your native language sounds crazy, that is because it is. It is just as crazy to suggest doing it to Esperanto.
Esperanto is not a project that people are still working on. It is a fully developed language that people use. It might still be evolving, but, as I said before, consciously adding new sounds is not evolution - it is trying to continue building a language that has already been built.