LyzTyphone:
Hope to see you use that attitude promoting Esperanto!

Pt 1

Thank you for the encouragement but alas after the brief discussion with my team of crusaders for Eo, we have decided to call it a halt.

It is very discouraging for us to see how ‘open-minded’ the Eo community is. They would term you as off-spring when your suggestion did not accord to their term. I never see the British TEFL or TESOL association naming the American English as the anglido, or rather the off spring even though the American English has the vast different from British English for example the car, the silent /r/ in British pronunciation and the strong /r/ in American English. As you are more aquaitainted to the American English spelling of one L as traveled and labeled.

It is the danger that if the community starts to label the other Eo community who have different opinions, in my case is just seeking. Labelling is the a part of apartheid , segregation and disunity process.

If I would make another suggestion that the tenses of Eo reducing to nil like:

No present tense --as
No past tense--is
No future tense-- os

For all the tenses, time phrase is replaced instead.

I go to school today.
I go to school yesterday.
I go to school tomorrow.

Would not the grammar tense easier at such?

The other stumbling block for the Asian language learners is the plural form of an extra letter. If I am going to suggest discard the n but using a letter or two, for example to is for singular and ti is for plural auxiliary verb. Though in Eo is reduced to n etc.. I believe this suggestion would get the Eo community to strap me to the rocket and within a minute, I would be vanished from the planet earth.

However, as you know Asian languages have no plural form of adding extra letter to the noun. Maybe I should reduce it to ASEAN languages as I only know one language out of ASEAN region, that is Chinese Han language. Thus the adding of n in Eo and s in English makes no differences as the learners are unable to co-relate the function. That is the reason, the English language learners, in my country, fail miserably in the English language test despite of more than a decade of learning with 5 English radio channels blasting round the clock. There are 4 Chinese language channels, one tamil and of course with the government aided provincial radio stations which broadcast in Malay are numerals.

You can imagine how many languages floating around Malaysians in a day. This does not include the indigenous languages.

Continue Pt 2

@LyzTyphone

Pt 2

No one in ASEAN countries know the CRI Eo broadcast and this one hour a day programme would not have any impact in the process of learning Eo either.

The Eo community has no resources to finance a radio station is beyond my comprehension. However, the radio verda, with limited sources has survived 150 issues. These are very much for those who are of the ability of internet accessed to take a glimpse of what Eo language is sounded like.

The Eo community is always proud of George Soros is an Esperanto native speaker but alas he does not come to the rescue of his mother tongue.

I have the privilege to work with the linguists in the university level and often heard them engaging in the discourse of the change in language. The answer they get, even they argued till the cows come home, is still zero.

Language, if Eo community takes it as a living thing, would change and evolutes even mutate if necessary. We are living things, we don’t wear the clothes of year 5 when we are in year 10. It is because we have grown in size and capacity and change is needed.

Improvement is the only choice to maintain any organization as well as a language. The late Dr Z might not have heard the sounds in the other side of the globe when was in the room inventing this Eo. Thus, it is time for the Eo community from the north to the south and from the east to the west come to look at it and putting in the best and discarding the bad （去芜存菁）

I don’t see anyone is still using thou and thee besides in churches. Touching on this, I wonder there are churches using Eo bible despite, according to the internet source, the bible was translated by the late Dr Z.

The other part that may surprise you is the scouting movement. I believe you know what scout movement is as Taiwan scout movement is very active and we receive many brother scouts from Taiwan yearly. This international uniform body has an Eo speaking section and it is almost a century old. But the main body website is not even linked it but rather have the Spanish and French,Russian and Arabic versions. The Esperanto [url=www.esperanto.org/skolta]skolta[/url] though, has the world scout organization‘s approval, it however, did not disseminate the info to the membership countries, if you are a scout, I don’t think you know the world body would come with a word of Esperanto.

Just imagine the scouts world wide who learn the Eo, the young minds and hearts would eventually have some ideas of how the world is built. I wonder would there by someone has sent in a mail, like me, to the world scout organization to request for the page of Eo language.

The Eo speaking scout movement will soon be a century old but it has only 20 countries participation. Shocking for me.

Continue Pt 3

@LyzTyphone

Pt 3--final

For your information, I don’t travel on Eo passport but a YHA membership card would do more than an Eo passport.

As you know different countries would have different cultures and they may not necessary follow the Eo culture. Remember Eo is just a language like Chinese, Tamil, Malay etc, Eo cannot change the culture but would assimilate into different cultures.

Hosting a friend is a good gesture, but if you have to wait till there is an Eo speaker so to pack your bag and travel, it maybe too late. In my country alone, for example, not all people would place a stranger in the house, even they know him/her. Therefore to host a friend from Eo speaking community would cause some problems as the financial is increased as the hosting family may have to shoulder the hotel payment.

We do not take one person that we meet to presume all of the people are subscribing to the same culture idea. The east and the west have lots efforts to understand each other. The best part of this understanding is the scout movement as they all housed in the camps. But the world scout movement fail to promote Eo.

I would not say that my team of crusaders from ASEAN countries would cease to promote Eo, as the time of now, nursing the wound is vital till we can get more moral supports from the authority in Esperanto community to assure us that the effort of us to promote this language is worth.

If my team’s previous efforts in forming Eo Clubs in school and youth community take effect, you can see the results in years to come. But I could not assure how long they would sustain the interest in a language which brings neither benefit in commercial values nor for future career developments , needless to say the ‘open’ degree of the Eo community responding to changes.

However, I would not think cheap traveling and peace are the items that Eo community should carry on with the idea in the 21st century as many international movements are promoting the same piece of thought.

Under the UN charter, there are other things that my team can do and contribute in area of anti-corruption, gender equality, homosexual rights etc.

I would like to thank you for assisting me in Eo language through your post in Chinese language forum. I welcome you to visit my country and know more of it. The Taiwan residents enjoy the VOA visa and the Taiwan tourism board is carrying a big campaign in Malaysia with buses plastered with Taiwanese foods and the paper advertisment of the beautiful hills.

Wishing all the readers of this threat a very successful career and good health in years to come.

Gxis

Happy reading

paksu:

Fundament is the untouchable core. Anything else is free to evolve.

If it is so free, thus it would be a chaos and confusion. There must be certain guidelines.

It is as free as he suggests, and yet not chaos. English has no committee controlling grammar and usage and yet it remains remarkably stable while constantly evolving. The reason it's not chaos is that people use languages for one reason only: to communicate. Sure, if every English speaker wanted to reform the language, then it would change. But it is rare for the critical mass necessary for such a major change to arise, because the benefit achieved by constant reforms is outweighed by having a tool that works now. Tiny changes still have the possibility of entering the language, from abbreviations of phrases that take too long to say, to new words for technology that didn't exist 20 years ago. It is like this for Esperanto as well.

paksu:If Australia could brave enough to do away the English policy and have one country two languages, the two languages are the mother tongue of respective community and one common language, ... Esperanto for all.

The Mother Tongue of most Australians would be English. What benefit would there be if Australia switched to Esperanto within its own borders?

paksu:It is very discouraging for us to see how ‘open-minded’ the Eo community is. They would term you as off-spring when your suggestion did not accord to their term. I never see the British TEFL or TESOL association naming the American English as the anglido, or rather the off spring even though the American English has the vast different from British English...

It's not about being close- or open-minded. Esperanto, unlike English, is trying to be an international language. Dialects are contrary to the desire for one universal second language for all, so anything that diverges significantly from standard Esperanto is called an Esperantido. It's as simple as that.

paksu:Language, if Eo community takes it as a living thing, would change and evolutes even mutate if necessary.
...
Thus, it is time for the Eo community from the north to the south and from the east to the west come to look at it and putting in the best and discarding the bad （去芜存菁）

There is a difference between evolution and deliberate changes. Esperanto's basic structure is unlikely to change, so you are unlikely to get letters added. Removing a letter from Esperanto is possible and has already essentially happened (ĥ.) If you wanted to get rid of other hard to pronounce letters, you'd just have to start using alternatives without them, imported via the 15th rule. Then if your neologisms caught on, they would be part of Esperanto. Because changes in Esperanto are always additive the old letter would still exist (just as ĥ does) and Komencantoj would have to learn it to read old texts, but there will then be ways to totally avoid it.

Oŝo-Jabe:

paksu:If Australia could brave enough to do away the English policy and have one country two languages, the two languages are the mother tongue of respective community and one common language, ... Esperanto for all.

The Mother Tongue of most Australians would be English. What benefit would there be if Australia switched to Esperanto within its own borders?

And further more, it's quite frankly waste of taxpayers money, quite frankly (along with many real-life "smart" ideas that the government has. As you can tell I am not the happiest with the current government. They started off well and now it's like "Where are we headed (apart from in circles)?"). And the people who don't speak English as a first language learn it anyway, because as far as they are concerned, it is far more useful than any other language (except maybe Chinese).

Things have to be weighed up based on how important they are. While linguistic university while supporting cultural diversity is a nice goal, I'd rather see governments cooperating more, rather than trying to force each-other into poverty like upset school-children (I was gonna say "School girls", but boys do this just as much, as my siblings have proven to me ).

Paksu:If I would make another suggestion that the tenses of Eo reducing to nil like:

No present tense --as
No past tense--is
No future tense-- os

I do like this idea, and think an "analytical Esperanto" would be a great concept and a beneficial register of Esperanto (it can be with your vowel-changed register ). But once again, unless everyone chooses it then it won't become the dominant form of Esperanto and will remain a dialect, register or Esperantido.
But sometimes I do get rid of all endings in colloquial speech even on these forums.
Kiel vi cxiu fart'? Mi fart' bon' dank'! Osx-Jab', ki est vi profilbild? Gxi est ja dangxer!

Also, it should be noted that Esperanto is semi-designed to be as capable, if not more capable, than any other language in international communication, so sometimes it can be complex.

Also, I saw Paksu you mentioned Machurian? I like that language so I have a few links of it. I wouldn't worry too much about it though, it's like the Latin of China, and is preserved well in literature (thanks to Europeans as well, who used Manchurian instead because Chinese was too hard for them )
Wikibooks lessons of Machu (Manju bithe in Manchurian? ).
But yes, sorry, I'm now off-topic

Paksu, I actually sympathise with your poit of view. I agree that Esperanto was not made having Asian people in mind, it has a lot of unnecessary difficulties, it's pronunciation system is too hard and many of your suggestions would be in fact great improvements (particularly your proposition about the verb tenses and removing the plural termination).

However, one must understand that Esperanto is not open to change, specially to those radical changes taht do not follow the Fundamento. There's a good reason for such a conservatism, as changing Esperanto all the time would force people to relearn it every once in a while and those people that haven't caught up with changes would be alienated. That would jeopardize the survival of Esperanto.

Though, in my opinion, Esperanto is not nearly good enough to be used as a widespread International Auxiliary Language. No language can be be really neutral and international without regarding the difficulties of speakers of Eastern languages, and as Esperanto cannot and will not change, the best choice would be to change of language.

I don't know a language that I'd consider adequate but, although I support the idea of having an IAL, I don't think Esperanto should be that IAL.

Vilinilo:I don't know a language that I'd consider adequate but, although I support the idea of having an IAL, I don't think Esperanto should be that IAL.

Haha how 'bout Lingua franca nova? (sorry Vinilo, I just laughed at your response to it last time, it was very dramatic !)

HI,

I risk to be ofendive, but I got to say that I am very surprised that this discussion is still opened. For a simple reason.

1- until now there is no mention of how we should write this new vowel. with an accent like "é"?

2- The set of consonnant and vowel constitutes the basics of a language. It has nothing to do with the introduction of new words. If you compare with a house, words are furnitures, and the alphabet is the foundation of the house. Try to change and you risk collapsing.

So if you want to introduce a new vowel in esperanto, build a time travel machine, and vizit s-ro Zamenhof. Now it's far too late.

So to my point of view, the suggestion made is politely not receivable.

And also not needed. A language able to respect all proper names of the world simply doesn't exist, because it should have all consonnant and vowel of the world! It is simply countrary to the logic of Esperanto. Also in my language (french), there are proper names that sounds strange to me, but it doesn't bother me. In french also the schwa exists, and I feel really no need to introduce it. Even in japanese, which vowel set is the same as esperanto, name of place can change, because in japanese often appear doubled sounds (ekz Tookyoo>> tokio).

On the contrary, I would say that Esperanto has to much sounds, especially consonants. Vowels are ok, and you can check most of conlangs, the more interesting ones have that kind of set. I would understand if you would suggest to take away sx, cx, gx, ktp...

Now, if you fundamentally disagree with esperanto, I suggest you to create a language that fits to your needs and the needs of the locals there. I'm not kitting, you have the right to do so, and I support it. I also personnally feel that esperanto is far from perfection, and will never reach the fina venko (ghh I hate these words). But now I gave up any attempt to suggest reforms, because it's useless, the language is here, it's like this, it works not too bad, and eventual changes will be made only with the acceptance of the majority of the esperantists.

Now Paksu, I respect your point of view, and I have no doubt that you will try to destroy all arguments exposed here, but I stay firmly on my positions.

Cheers,

ceigered:Haha how 'bout Lingua franca nova? (sorry Vinilo, I just laughed at your response to it last time, it was very dramatic !)

I like being dramatic