Saluton karaj

As i am doing translation and i came across that the Esperanto language does not have the sound of /e/ the inverted of e sound in IPA, it is like the girl, e sound.

Most of the Asian languages has this sound. In the past, the British had helped the Malays in the Malaya, not Malaysia yet to create the romanised Malay words. In the past, the Malays used Arabic as the form for sound pronuciation.

There was the e with the circumfix ~ on top of the e, therefore it can differentiate the /e/ and the /e~/, like the Melaka/me~laka/ not the /melaka/.

We called the /~/ as etana--e~ is e-etana.

But the confrontation with Indonesia in the 60s saw the Malaysian leaders decided to change the letter e without ~ to follow the Indonesian spelling pattern.

I cannot speak for all the Asian languages but as the member country of ASEAN, i know all the ten countries, the local languages have the /e~/ sound. This sound is included in the names of people and places. For example Perlis this word , it has the e~, but Perak, the e is without ~ sound.

A good language is able to evolve and be tested over times as the Tagalog in the Philippines had undergone changes too till what it is today.Another example is the Chinese language.

For the Esperantistis in the world, they should consider to accept the change of the language to make it better acceptance of the people.

I have to stress that i am glad that the Esperanto drop the /th/ sound and this is very difficult sound to pronouce for many people even the speakers of the language.

But for the e~, it is added a circumfix on top of the letter e, this could have solved many problems in the language.

I leave this suggestion to the world Esperantists to have careful studies and in years to come, Espeanto will be the best language in the world.

Vivu Esperanto

Gxis

I think I get your point - You are saying that you like the ẽ (is that the right character) sound that Malaysian had, and not the ambiguous e (which can be /e/ or /ə/) that Indonesian has, correct? And then suggesting that Esperanto should also have a differentiation between /e/ and /ə/?

If that's so, it's probably not going to happen unless it is a natural progression in the language - that is to say, that no one will make it official unless everyone subconsciously starts making two /e/ sounds in Esperanto. Normally, the /e/ in Esperanto must be pronounced as ONLY the general /e/ sound (actually, a variation between /e ~ ɛ/, but we will just use /e/ here), and NOT /ə/, so it is unlikely people will want to add an entire new sound to the language. If you are hearing the /ə/, it's likely due to someone's natural language (I, for example, sometimes say "lerni" as something between /'lərni/ and /'lɛrni/). Which is still moderately OK in some unambiguous cases. Maybe, in the future, there will be a separate /e/ and /ə/ in Esperanto, but not likely right now. It does exist unofficially in some accents though.

I hope that made sense, I re-read my message and found it quite messy! And sorry if I misunderstood you!

ceigered:I think I get your point - You are saying that you like the ẽ (is that the right character) sound that Malaysian had, and not the ambiguous e (which can be /e/ or /ə/) that Indonesian has, correct? And then suggesting that Esperanto should also have a differentiation between /e/ and /ə/?

Right sir, i did the same as pronouce the Esperanto not as /e/ but as /ə/, of course lerni is all the time /ə/

This is due to the local assimilation.

Well, if the Universal congress does not look into it and that is hard to push Esperanto into the Asia because they may feel frustrated and do not like Esperanto.

Don't forget, it is not Esperanto the only language that serve the world.

Choices are many.

paksu:As i am doing translation and i came across that the Esperanto language does not have the sound of /e/ the inverted of e sound in IPA, it is like the girl, e sound.

What, do you want to have TWO e sounds? That would mean a change in most vocabulary; and if it's not natural, as ciegered said, then it's not going to work.

—Ilhuıtemoc

(actually, a variation between /e ~ ɛ/, but we will just use /e/ here)

This is an easy sound to pronounce, and to add "ẽ" would make things easy for some and difficult to some.

To change a language just to make it easier to learn for some at the risk of making it more difficult to some is something not worth taking, in my opinion. It's already good that Esperanto allows variation like the above-cited. As I mentioned, the Esperanto "e" is already easy to begin with. I find it strange that one would ACTUALLY suggest to add another "e" sound.

P.S. I just checked Wikipedia, and I found that the Malay "e" is actually /e, ɛ/. The same as in Tagalog, my mother tongue. So, there's actually no problem at all, kara paksu.

P.S. I just checked Wikipedia, and I found that the Malay "e" is actually /e, ɛ/. The same as in Tagalog, my mother tongue. So, there's actually no problem at all, kara paksu.

Yes, the Malay has the similiarity with the Tagalog but there are sounds that are still not in the /e/(air) sound in Malay as i have quoate the state of Melaka is / ɛ/ but not /e/, Perlis another state in the Peninsula is also pronunce as / ɛ/ but the Perak state is /e/ sound.

There is no language in the world claim that it is the most sophicated and there need no improvement.

What, do you want to have TWO e sounds? That would mean a change in most vocabulary; and if it's not natural, as ciegered said, then it's not going to work.

—Ilhuıtemoc

No, it would not change the vocabulary but the new vocab would have the / ɛ/ sound and this would enrich Esperanto.

There is /c/ and /cx/, what is the different of one to suffice the sound of most languages in the Asian countries.

For the European speakers may find it alright but the Asians feel the different ways. That is why Esperanto is never taken any start in Asia, for country like China is of other historical meaning.

As stated earlier, language is a living thing if it wants to survive, chnage is inevitable.

paksu:There is no language in the world claim that it is the most sophicated and there need no improvement.

Of course, and I'm actually into certain reform proposals~! But I first consider its advantages and disadvantages before jumping in. I must say, one of the hardest reform proposals to consider is a phonological reform. It affects the spoken word, not the written, so it's harder to implement.

As for your proposal, I think it's already done because it's already an acceptable variant. As long as the "e" is not dipthongized, schwa-ized, or turned into an "i", it's OK.

patrik:

(actually, a variation between /e ~ ɛ/, but we will just use /e/ here)

This is an easy sound to pronounce, and to add "ẽ" would make things easy for some and difficult to some.

To change a language just to make it easier to learn for some at the risk of making it more difficult to some is something not worth taking, in my opinion. It's already good that Esperanto allows variation like the above-cited. As I mentioned, the Esperanto "e" is already easy to begin with. I find it strange that one would ACTUALLY suggest to add another "e" sound.

P.S. I just checked Wikipedia, and I found that the Malay "e" is actually /e, ɛ/. The same as in Tagalog, my mother tongue. So, there's actually no problem at all, kara paksu.

For your information, the Malay language in Malaysia current is about 95% Indonesian format, from grammar to vocaubulary.

You can have good idea only you look at the books of 60s.

There used to be a sengkang ,i.e the dash - for the word but now no more.

Lightly say, it is the Malaysian leaders willingly assismilate the language from Melayu Malaysia to Bahasa Indonesian which has lots of Dutch based vocabulary.

P.S. I just checked Wikipedia, and I found that the Malay "e" is actually /e, ɛ/. The same as in Tagalog, my mother tongue. So, there's actually no problem at all, kara paksu.

Interestingly, the selamat in Malay and tagalog is the same and we don't pronouce it as the Esperanto /e/(air) but is it as /ɛ/.

Of course, i don't say this selamat should be whole word use in Esperanto. However, there is a very famous radio DJ in Malaysia , his name is Awang Selamat.

If his family name is pronouce as selamat as in the EO /e/, this would annoy the man and his clan of family.

As there are many Chinese names are also in that sound as /ɛ/