Mesaĝoj: 18
Lingvo: English
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 19:39:45
Jafiki91:if anyone could send me or even just show me where to get a complete Esperanto grammar chart..Here is a link to the [url=LIG=http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/rules.html]page[/url] on the "16 rules" by a famous American Esperantist, the late Don Harlow, who gives some useful explanations and examples.
For more details, on this webpage there is a concise grammar in which you can use the drop down menu to get information on a particular topic.
Esperanto was designed to be an international language, which would be easy to learn. Its traditional mode of expression is therefore more simple and direct than other languages. I encourage you to learn it to a point where you can communicate with people with whom you can do so in no other language! You will get such an experience if you go to international meetings.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 20:12:47
Oŝo-Jabe:Most of the time though the simple infinitive is sufficient.ALL of the time, the simple infinitive is sufficient. This is probably why in Esperanto's 120 years of use, no one has seen fit to add participle endings to our infinitives.
Plus Erinja, as you said -intus is picking up use. -Nti forms are just the infinitive forms of that, so people should have no trouble understanding.-intus forms are picking up use, but are still unnecessary and I wouldn't recommend them to beginners. Also, the PMEG points out that any combined form other than -intus would likely be hard to parse and the listener would have to think about it for a moment to understand. It certainly isn't the kind of instant recognition that most words elicit.
If someone used a -nti form to me, I wouldn't understand. I would first assume I misheard, and then I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes before I got the meaning.
I would never suggest to a beginner that he or she use this form. To me, suggesting to a beginner that this is ok and normal is doing the beginner a huge disservice.
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 20:41:00
erinja:The very existence of the "ir_nti" and fictional reformist examples proves you wrong. Yes, 99.999% of the time, no one is ever going to use -_nti. I would also tell beginners not to use this form. However, there is nothing grammatically incorrect about it, and so I see no problem with an experienced speaker who knows what they're getting into, using the form in poetry, jokes or literature (as in your reformist example.)Oŝo-Jabe:Most of the time though the simple infinitive is sufficient.ALL of the time, the simple infinitive is sufficient. This is probably why in Esperanto's 120 years of use, no one has seen fit to add participle endings to our infinitives.
Jafiki91 (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 21:00:29
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 21:05:42
Jafiki91:...is it ok to say something like "Mi grandas." in place of "Mi estas granda"?This form is actually fairly common now, although I understand that in the past it wasn't used as much. It is grammatically correct, and readily understandable. Although, in my own opinion (for whatever that is worth), it works best if there is at least a hint of action (which your example has). I can't think of any examples at the moment, but I have run across some adjectives that don't seem to work as well as others when put into this form.
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 21:10:49
Jafiki91:So my question on that is, is it ok to say something like "Mi grandas." in place of "Mi estas granda"? I realize it probably isn't as common, but from what I've seen on Esperanto grammar, phrasing something like this would make sense grammatically.That is actually more common than you think, and a fully accepted part of modern Esperanto. Some word's verb forms are ambiguous, but adjectives almost always become stative verbs. The reason this acceptance doesn't extend to participles, is because more grammatical information is being squeezed into, for example, "devinti" than into "blui."
Edit: RiotNrrd ninja'd me!
Frankouche (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-23 21:23:32
Oŝo-Jabe:This form is great ! Like a nominal sentence which have a lot of languages.Jafiki91:So my question on that is, is it ok to say something like "Mi grandas." in place of "Mi estas granda"? I realize it probably isn't as common, but from what I've seen on Esperanto grammar, phrasing something like this would make sense grammatically.That is actually more common than you think, and a fully accepted part of modern Esperanto.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-januaro-24 03:00:19
niko-tina:It has always puzzled me why this was not regular. Having the -ig and -iĝ sufixes one would theoretically be able to make all the basic -i verbs intransitive (because of the predicative meaning that it can express), and then add the suffix -ig to express transitivity.I have never heard of any debates over this. In most "natural" languages, verbs are transitive or intransitive. I think people are used to that, and maybe Zamenhof thought it would be difficult for people to get used to the idea of certain "inherently transitive" verbs being intransitive in their base form. Like "to have" for example.
In most cases, transitivity is obvious. It's a minority of cases where you really can't be sure, and those must be memorized. I guess Zamenhof thought it would be easier to memorize a few verbs than to re-train your brain to a whole new way of thinking about verbs. Or else, maybe it never even occurred to him to do something like your idea!
I believe that verbs in Ido were designed with an inherent idea of reversability. That is, that it would be unnecessary to memorize what kind of root something is, to derive other forms of it. I am not extremely clear on how this works but according to Wikipedia, even Ido doesn't keep up this policy through the whole language, and you still have to memorize the baseline grammatical form of some roots. (i.e. long/ is an adjective root, hund/ is a noun root, hav/ is a verb root; these are Esperanto examples but I'm sure Ido has them as well)