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Redunancy in 'si mem'?

de bitterbug, 6 de febrer de 2010

Missatges: 6

Llengua: English

bitterbug (Mostra el perfil) 6 de febrer de 2010 23.58.56

Oni pensas pri si mem. - One thinks about oneself.

I'm starting fresh from the beginner lessons, though I already have David Richardson's excellent book.

The sentence above confuses me though. Isn't 'si mem' redundant? It reads to me as "One thinks about oneself oneself'.

The vortaro seems to agree with me, but I may be missing a grammar rule.

Rogir (Mostra el perfil) 7 de febrer de 2010 0.48.48

Yes, I think it is redundant. But many languages express it like that, and it is not really wrong, so it appears a lot.

bitterbug (Mostra el perfil) 7 de febrer de 2010 0.57.24

Rogir:Yes, I think it is redundant. But many languages express it like that, and it is not really wrong, so it appears a lot.
I'm just glad the grammer of Esperanto avoids sentences like this:

"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"

erinja (Mostra el perfil) 7 de febrer de 2010 3.06.04

I wouldn't really call it redundant. "Mem" is never used alone, it is always with a pronoun. It serves to emphasize the pronoun or noun that it's used with. If you're going to call it redundant, then, you'd have to say that it is redundant, because it is a way of repeating a pronoun!

So, for example, I can say "Mi faros tion" (I will do that) or I can say "Mi mem faros tion" (I myself will do that). Technically, "mem" is not necessary; "I" is still the same person as "I myself". But it serves to emphasize; I, and no one else, will do it, it will definitely be me.

So yes, you could say "Oni pensas pri si" and that would be grammatically correct. But if you use the form "si mem" instead, it adds an additional emphasis that could even be understood as adding a tinge of selfishness. One thinks about oneself - about oneself, and not about others. That's the impression that "mem" is giving the reader here.

qwertz (Mostra el perfil) 7 de febrer de 2010 9.32.45

So, "mem" marks a kind of responsibility of the mentioned task etc. in the way "ŝi, li, mi memzorgos", isn't it?

darkweasel (Mostra el perfil) 7 de febrer de 2010 11.11.30

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