Žinutės: 19
Kalba: English
Evildela (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 18 d. 07:18:42
What im trying to say is:
Two penguins which are both black and white.
>_>
Ironchef (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 18 d. 15:32:12
Evildela:Ok my simple question got very complex lolThen I would simply say
What im trying to say is:
Two penguins which are both black and white.
>_>
Du nigraj kaj blankaj pingvinoj
To me that clearly states
[two penguins][black & white]
If I specifically wanted to say
[two penguins each][black & white]
I would say
Du nigraj pingvinoj kaj du blankaj pingvinoj
ceigered (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 18 d. 15:37:20
Ironchef:As an aside, you may or may not know that the word "Penguin" comes to us from the Cornish language (Kernewek), where "pen gwynn" means "white head". Many of the ships sailing to the south-seas for whaling in the eighteenth century were from the SW of England and could have included many Cornish-speaking sailors.As another aside, there is however some arguments that derivation of "penguin" using Cornish/Welsh is actually folk etymological. But it's the best etymology I've ever heard of it (despite the fact that it's a very random idea, that a Cornishman suddenly proclaimed "WHITE HEAD!" especially when penguins have black heads.... Bob the sailor was plagued with inverted colour recognition)
.Then again, Pendu doesn't sound quite as cool
Regarding Evildela's question:
Mathematics and probability aside, "Du pingvenoj kiuj ambaux estas nigraj kaj blankaj" is the literal translation of "Two penguins which are both black and white" - so, "ambaux" can be used to mean both, meaning you could also say "Ambaux pingvenoj estas nigraj kaj blankaj".
Or so I believe
erinja (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 18 d. 21:27:18
Esperanto allows us to make these distinctions through the use of compound words, and I think we should take advantage of that!
Therefore my vote is for "du nigrablankaj pingvenoj", or else "nigra-blankaj" (the hyphenated form might be preferable for a children's book, since it makes it clearer that this is a compound word)
ceigered (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 19 d. 04:27:17
erinja:I don't understand why everyone is overlooking the perfectly serviceable "nigra-blankaj"Because we're Esperantists and that's too simple!
Hauxkins (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 22 d. 10:26:15
Jen sube:
Roberto12 (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 22 d. 12:47:39
ceigered (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 22 d. 14:45:10
Hauxkins:I'm from Wales, and I'd always thought that penguin was from pen-gwyn, the Welsh for white-head. Not all penguins have black heads.Now, in that case (referring to the picture), if I was Welsh, I'd probably exclaim "PENZEBRA!"
Jen sube:
Most penguins tend to have predominately black feathers on their heads, such as Adelie Penguins, Emperor (and King) Penguins and Rockhoppers (the latter 3 having the added yellow things for cool-points). Galapagos and Magellan penguins I believe to have some white, as do many chicks, but these white bits are generally less dominant. The point being that, scientifically speaking, it's not 100% watertight to say that the name evolved from "white-head" in Welsh.
The current etymologies, at least the ones I've heard of (mostly originating from wikipedia
) include the "Pengwyn" hypothesis (apparently in regards to the Great Auk), the Latin "pinguis" (fat in Latin) theory, which stands up reasonably well, except if it also originated from the Great Auk, which would make no sense as they weren't fat or something like that, and finally the "Pen-wing" theory which makes sense spare the lack of a reason for "wing" becoming "gwin" So for me its between "Pengwyn" and "Pinguis". In fact, it might be both (the name "pengwyn" may have arisen alongside "pinguis" and they ended up complementing each other).
*EDIT: Roberto has an excellent point about the bluaverda example, IMO.
erinja (Rodyti profilį) 2010 m. vasaris 22 d. 16:59:39
I think nigra-blanka is the clearest way to say that the penguins are multi-colored. Otherwise, there is always doubt as to whether there are simply some white penguins and some black penguins.
I don't recall anyone having quoted PMEG yet, but it supports use of a word like blanka-nigra.
Translated from this link:
PMEG:Sometimes you also use the following wording for two words that are used together to show one idea:More comments at this link:
* nigra kaj blanka → [nigra (kaj) blanka]-A → nigrablanka = such that it has only the colors black and white
The J-ending and N-ending are used only at the end of this sort of combined word: nigrablankaj fotoj, nigrablankan foton, nigrablankajn fotojn. But often in these cases, a compound word is used instead: nigra-blanka. In that case, the two adjectives are treated as independent words, and endings are added to both: nigraj-blankaj fotoj, nigran-blankan foton, nigrajn-blankajn fotojn.
PMEG:Writing adjectives as compound words shows that the various adjectives are being used together to show something special:
*La Franca flago estas blua-blanka-ruĝa. You could also say "blua, blanka, kaj rugxa", but the all-in-one form shows that it is a unified and well-defined color combination.
*La fotoj ne estis koloraj, sed nigraj-blankaj. You could also say nigraj kaj blankaj, but nigraj-blankaj places more emphasis on the contrast between these photos and color photos. It has to do with a specific type of photo.