Mesaĝoj: 25
Lingvo: English
qwertz (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-18 19:22:37
So, how would you translate the french overseas department La Réunion "ejo"? Btw., it is part of the European Union. 
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-18 19:59:01
qwertz:So, how would you translate the french overseas department La Réunion "ejo"? Btw., it is part of the European Union.It's Reunio in Esperanto according to Landoj kaj lingvoj.
-uj for country names is not a reform, not at all. We find -uj in the Fundamento:
- §26 Ekzercaro: Mi vojaĝas en Hispanujo. ― Mi vojaĝas en Hispanujon.
- §37 Ekzercaro: Germanoj kaj francoj, kiuj loĝas en Rusujo, estas Rusujanoj, kvankam ili ne estas rusoj.
- §40 Ekzercaro: La rusoj loĝas en Rusujo kaj la germanoj en Germanujo.
- Universala Vortaro: uj' qui porte, qui contient, qui est peuplé de; ex. pom' pomme ― pom'uj' pommier; cigar' cigare ― cigar'uj' porte-cigares; Turk' Turc ― Turk'uj' Turquie | filled with; e. g. ink' ink ― ink'uj' ink-pot; pom' apple ― pom'uj' apple-tree; Turk'uj' Turkey | Behälter, Träger (d. h. Gegenstand worin... aufbewahrt wird,... Früchte tragende Pflanze, von... bevölkertes Land); z. B. cigar' Cigarre ― cigar'uj' Cigarrenbüchse; pom' Apfel ― pom'uj' Apfelbaum; Turk' Türke ― Turk'uj' Türkei | вмѣститель, носитель (т. е. вещь, въ которой храниться..., растеніе несущее... или страна заселенная...); напр. cigar' сигара ― cigar'uj' портъ-сигаръ; pom' яблоко ― pom'uj' яблоня; Turk' Турокъ ― Turk'uj' Турція | zawierający, noszący (t. j. przedmtot, w którym się coś przechowuje, roślina, która wydaje owoc, lub kraj, względem zaludniających go mieszkańców; np. cigar' cygaro ― cigar'uj' cygarnica; pom' jabłko ― pom'uj' jabłoń; Turk' turek ― Turk'uj' Turcya.
While the English translation of the UV does not seperately mark the "country" meaning of -uj, at least the French and German ones do. -uj is a suffix that has three different meanings: a container, a country, or a tree.
What is a reform is -i for country names. It's a very popular reform that is even accepted by the Akademio. However, it makes the language more difficult as I pointed out in my blog article I linked to previously.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-19 04:32:16
Blimey, bit of a bombshell of an issue I've come across by the looks of things 
.
Well, whatever. I'll just go with whatever everyone else is doing. I just find "container" an odd suffix for countries when "lando", "zono", "areo", "ejo" and even "nacio" exist
. Even if "ujo" beat them to the punch, "Franclando" makes more sense to me (when thinking about it of course) than "Francujo". But I guess "lando" is a fairly germanic suffix normally associated with northern european countries like England, Deutschland, Nederlands, Ísland (although more ís than land), etc, and might not be suitable for non-germanic countries (or so Zam' might have thought).
.Well, whatever. I'll just go with whatever everyone else is doing. I just find "container" an odd suffix for countries when "lando", "zono", "areo", "ejo" and even "nacio" exist
. Even if "ujo" beat them to the punch, "Franclando" makes more sense to me (when thinking about it of course) than "Francujo". But I guess "lando" is a fairly germanic suffix normally associated with northern european countries like England, Deutschland, Nederlands, Ísland (although more ís than land), etc, and might not be suitable for non-germanic countries (or so Zam' might have thought).darkweasel:What is a reform is -i for country names. It's a very popular reform that is even accepted by the Akademio. However, it makes the language more difficult as I pointed out in my blog article I linked to previously.I found that out last night actually after reading into this a bit more. Surprising, considering EO reforms generally aren't as successful as say Dutch Spelling reforms
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-19 06:20:13
ceigered:I just find "container" an odd suffix for countries when "lando", "zono", "areo", "ejo" and even "nacio" existThe suffix -uj simply doesn't have only the meaning "container", but also "country" and "tree". Nothing odd in that, there are many words in Esperanto with different meanings.
ceigered:Even if "ujo" beat them to the punch, "Franclando" makes more sense to me (when thinking about it of course) than "Francujo". But I guess "lando" is a fairly germanic suffix normally associated with northern european countries like England, Deutschland, Nederlands, Ísland (although more ís than land), etc, and might not be suitable for non-germanic countries (or so Zam' might have thought).-land has the same problem as -i: In Islando live islandanoj, while in Skotlando (= Skotujo) live skotoj. Only if you use -uj, you're literally screaming out the category of every country name you say, so others will remember it. Not only others, you yourself will, too! That's because there's no country-based country name that ends with "ujo".
If you start using -ej, you're creating a collision with Brunejo (where there are brunejanoj, not *brunoj), (Nov-)Ĵerzejo ((nov-)ĵerzejanoj not *(nov-)ĵerzoj), and some Chinese provinces that also end in "ejo" - as part of the root!
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-19 13:11:41
Great point - ujo's.. strangeness I guess wins it points because you can't confuse it with anything else, except maybe the odd declension in some random classical proto-language
I guess "ujo"'s proper meaning would then be something abstract like in between a contained "network" or "grouping" of things (e.g. in the nation and tree examples) but without the insinuations of society or interconnectivity or any of those things, rather than just "jug" or "box" like the odd one or two dictionaries say.
Anyway cheers Darkweasel for clearing this up for me.
I guess "ujo"'s proper meaning would then be something abstract like in between a contained "network" or "grouping" of things (e.g. in the nation and tree examples) but without the insinuations of society or interconnectivity or any of those things, rather than just "jug" or "box" like the odd one or two dictionaries say.
Anyway cheers Darkweasel for clearing this up for me.