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Wordbuliding Question

kelle poolt Spanglanese, 18. veebruar 2010

Postitused: 8

Keel: English

Spanglanese (Näita profiili) 18. veebruar 2010 18:39.47

In general, I get (and rather like) the affixes. But when you mix them, I'm not always sure what the new word means. For example:
Mi ŝatas ĝin:I like it.
Mi malŝatas ĝin:I dislike it.
Mi ŝategas ĝin:I like it a lot.

Mi malŝategas ĝin:I don't like it very much OR I hate it? demando.gif

Is there are rule of thumb? Context? Or do you just avoid this kind of structure?

Thanks!

qwertz (Näita profiili) 18. veebruar 2010 18:48.28

Spanglanese:In general, I get (and rather like) the affixes. But when you mix them, I'm not always sure what the new word means. For example:
Mi ŝatas ĝin:I like it.
Mi malŝatas ĝin:I dislike it.
Mi ŝategas ĝin:I like it a lot.

Mi malŝategas ĝin:I don't like it very much OR I hate it? demando.gif

Is there are rule of thumb? Context? Or do you just avoid this kind of structure?

Thanks!
Maybe: "malŝategas = I decline to like something very much".?

I would say that some esperanto words can not translated into another language. Some time ago I had a disscussion with our local esperanto guru. He tried to explain me Homaranismo. But that seems not to be possible excactly with German vocabulary. If you will encounter such a esperanto-only word you only can think the esperanto way.

tommjames (Näita profiili) 18. veebruar 2010 19:27.02

Spanglanese:Mi malŝategas ĝin:I don't like it very much OR I hate it?
I would go with the latter interpretation. The former is a negative expression.. not the same thing as opposition, which is what "mal" shows. Any suffixes used affect that which stands before them, in this case "malŝat", meaning to dislike, so "malŝategi" means to dislike a lot, or hate. Of course in this example that's kind of academic because any way you square it, it still amounts to hating:

mal[ŝateg]i = opposite of like very much = hate
malŝat[eg]i = dislike very much = hate

trojo (Näita profiili) 18. veebruar 2010 19:50.27

Spanglanese:In general, I get (and rather like) the affixes. But when you mix them, I'm not always sure what the new word means. For example:
Mi ŝatas ĝin:I like it.
Mi malŝatas ĝin:I dislike it.
Mi ŝategas ĝin:I like it a lot.

Mi malŝategas ĝin:I don't like it very much OR I hate it? demando.gif

Is there are rule of thumb? Context? Or do you just avoid this kind of structure?

Thanks!
One rule of thumb is that mal- is not the same as ne-, so malŝategi is "to dislike greatly", and ne ŝategi is "to not greatly like". (It's awkward in English with the split inifinitive, but perfectly clear in Esperanto.)

It's kind of like in English how "not happy" and "unhappy" are not quite the same thing.

ceigered (Näita profiili) 19. veebruar 2010 13:24.17

Building on Trojo's explanation, I'd note that "unhappy" uses "un" which is a lot more flexible than "mal" to my understanding.

Basically, "not" (ne-) just means "not (the quality, state or value that gets placed here", where as "mal" means "(the opposite quality, state or value than what the root is)".

For example, "nefacila" = not easy. But not necessarily hard, just not easy. Maybe in the middle of the difficulty range.
However, "malfacila" = hard (the opposite of easy).

If we use numbers as an example, we could have (just to demonstrate):
-2, -1, 0, 1, 2.
In this case, "Maldu" would be -2. However, "nedu" could be 1, 0, -1 or -2 (however, the reader will probably assume it's something towards the "opposite" side).

The meaning of -eg, -et, etc gets added after "mal". Generally, you might be able to say that the closest suffix to the core of the root at the start of the word is the first to be counted, and then you count outwards from there, and then start at the back in normal order, however it's not a very rigid guideline and you have to think outside the square a bit.

*Note that I don't actually know if "negative 2" in Esperanto is actually "maldu", that was just an example though of how the meaning can be affected by different suffixes.
If it helps, think of it on a scale like this (with "facila" as the example root):
<-(malfacilega) (malfacila) (malfacileta) (normala) (facileta) (facila) (facilega)->
Put "ne-" in front of any word here (e.g. nemalfacileta) and the meaning of this new word is just about any of the other possible ones rideto.gif)

In terms of deciphering a suffixed-word's meaning, here's an example of how to possibly break it down:
nesenhelpegemulokunesti
= (the opposite of)-(without)-(help)-(greatly)-(tendency)-(fellow)-(with)-(be)

= not-without-"tendency to help greatly"-"fellow"-"to be with"
= not-"without the tendency to help much"-"fellow"-"to be with"
= not-"unhelpful people"-"to be with"
= to be free of hindrances (not a 100% correct translation, but you probably get the idea now of how things can stack together)

rido.gif

Rogir (Näita profiili) 19. veebruar 2010 21:11.16

The official -2 is minus du, but I think maldu will be most likely interpreted as -2.

ceigered (Näita profiili) 20. veebruar 2010 18:32.14

Rogir:The official -2 is minus du, but I think maldu will be most likely interpreted as -2.
Cheers mate for the proper word ridulo.gif

Spanglanese (Näita profiili) 21. veebruar 2010 21:57.00

Dankon!

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