In the guestbook I found mention of Vuyamu, which seemed to me well designed.

Haha, that was me who mentioned it

I'm enthusiastic when it comes to these sorts of oligosynthetic languages, and I've modified some of Vuyamu to the point where I think it could work fairly well and be easy to understand.

As for Puna Lu, I see it much more of an experiment than an actual attempt at an international language.

ceigered:calling it a rip off of Toki Pona? Blimey, glad you guys haven't realised how much a rip off of various sources Esperanto is! Sed, mi ankoraŭ ŝatas Esperanton, ĉar ĝi estas tiu kiu ĝi estas. And I'd hardly call ANY language "original", they all copy the heck out of each other.

There's a difference between ineptly ripping off and creatively building upon prior influences. Esperanto of course brings together influences and ideas from a number of natural languages, but also contains much that was innovative at the time it was created, such as the way the tabelvortoj work, and Esperanto as a complete system was put together skillfully and creatively. Esperanto is as much a great work of art as it is a great technical accomplishment, and in my opinion I've never seen another conlang come close to it.

Toki Pona is a work of art too, and of course it also builds upon prior influences, yet it still has its own unique artistic character and innovations. In addition, on the Toki Pona homepage, influences that helped inspire and shape the development of Toki Pona are acknowledged. To me, that matters.

Puna has none of this. There is nothing creative or interesting about it that I can see, and its creator doesn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge on his webpage that Puna is basically Toki Pona stripped down to the point of uselessness. Maybe that doesn't seem like a big deal to most people, but it does to me. *shrug*

Well, to me I see differences to Toki Pona. Granted, I think they both stink, then again I'm the kind of dude who reviews the Latin declension system for kicks.

Also, the tabelvortoj aren't really THAT innovative - I won't say they were copied from something else, but it's like the Apple iPad - people treat it like it is the first tablet ever and increadibly innovative, but all the things have been done before. However, anything that comes after the iPad will be labelled "iPad knockoffs", as is the nature of the beast (replace iPad with iPhone and you have a similar story, and the same with iPod. Or the same with the Gameboy Advance vs. the Sega Gamegear). The same thing loosely applies to languages. The author's bias and influence will always come out in a language, but just because it has those influences doesn't mean its total dog faeces - otherwise EO's just as bigger knockoff.

I mean, look at it this way:
- Verb system (using vowels) - already done before Zamenhoff.
- Tabelvortoj - great similarities naturally arose in many languages (think latin qu, slavic t- and germanic d/th-). EO is nothing more than really a duplicated super-regularised and expanded Indo-European interrogative pronoun system)
- Vocabulary - nothing greatly deformed, almost an arbitrary collection of various European words Zamenhoff knew or liked

For these reasons (and many), people will automatically go "Oh EO's just a hodgepodge of European languages". We all hate this no doubt, because it oversimplifies the benefits and problems with the languages and makes it sound like because of its origins, EO is invalid as a language. Now, think about how you're treating Puna. Sure, the things a project in progress by the looks of things. It might never get completed. It will likely (like 99.995% of conlangs) be forgotten in 10 years or so. But so far people are taking its influences, and their own subjective opinions of the language, and making it sound like because of that it's an invalid idea.

I'm sorry guys. I'm not trying to have a go at anyone, it's just my nature to balance out every discussion even if it means betraying my own opinions .

ceigered:

k1attack:
I think only Esperanto is fit to be an international language, hence millions of people speak it.

I think Old Latin should be the only international language, as when it evolved to Classical latin, approximately 50 million people spoke it, which beats Esperanto massively! Just joking. But remember, things are rarely so black and white.

By international language I meant a man-made international language like Esperanto which is created artificially.

I think I might try Vuyamu to see how it's like.

k1attack:

ceigered:

k1attack:
I think only Esperanto is fit to be an international language, hence millions of people speak it.

I think Old Latin should be the only international language, as when it evolved to Classical latin, approximately 50 million people spoke it, which beats Esperanto massively! Just joking. But remember, things are rarely so black and white.

By international language I meant a man-made international language like Esperanto which is created artificially.

Ah ok, but still the point I was trying to make is that numbers of speakers does not inherently mean automatic right of way for a language, man-made or national. If Puna's compound word dictionary expanded, then one day Puna might be better suited than EO (I doubt so though, and hopefully EO stays up the top ).

Anyway I think I've exhausted all the thoughts and debates that have been running through my head, and anything else would change the topic to debates about the creation of languages, innate artificiality of all language and things like the Saphir Worf hypothesis. Basically, Puna's more of an attempt at a proof of concept so I wouldn't feel threatened or worried by it, it's more harmless than the fly that's on my arm just - OW! DEAR GOD IT'S EATING ME!

And Vuyamu looks interesting, for some reason it reminds me of languages like Swahili...

ceigered:Vuyama is a lot better than Tokipona and the before-mentioned Puna in achieving the same basic idea, I think. The sound set wasn't perfect for neutral communication but the concept was brilliant from what little I saw. Too lazy to learn it though when I'm already trying to perfect my EO, learn Indonesian as my University major and do French as an elective - sheesh!

You're right. But I haven't completely seen it yet, but I could learn it in like half an hour, cos it has 99 words, which is less than the amount of words Toki Pona or Bon Wen has. I think ŝ should be used for the "sh" sound, rather than "x", which is very wierd to see at the start of a word. That's why Esperanto didn't use "x". However, Vuyamu looks more logical than Toki Puna Wen (Toki Pona, Puna and Bon Wen). A language is "a way of speaking" in Vuyamu, not a "speaking". Vuyamu contains every possible syllable formed by the 20 consonants and the 5 vowels, apart from "li", which could be used before and/or after a proper name because every syllable(apart from li) has a meaning. Vuyamu looks like an interesting language. I think it might overtake even Esperanto, but the truth will be revealed after I learn it.

k1attack: I think it might overtake even Esperanto, but the truth will be revealed after I learn it.

Mmm, I might have to check it out after uni tomorrow as well...

k1attack:Vuyamu contains every possible syllable formed by the 20 consonants and the 5 vowels, apart from "li", which could be used before and/or after a proper name because every syllable(apart from li) has a meaning.

The word "li" isn't found on the website dictionary. It's just ME suggesting it for use before and after proper names. The new word will make Vuyamu have a 100 words, which is an even number.

k1attack:Vuyamu contains every possible syllable formed by the 20 consonants and the 5 vowels,

I think it can be seen as a drawback more that an advantage, as it become harder to distinguish word that are so similar (because made of only one syllabe).