This is not about Esperanto, but about people that I have met in life.

I work at a hotel, and there we have a few people at the front desk who are not native English speakers, one speaks Bosnian (though he has been in the US for the last six years and and speaks great English with a bit of an accent), and another is from Kazakhstan, he has only been in the US for a little less then a year (he also speaks great English with an accent). None of the staff have any troubles understanding these two people, and a majority of guests do not have a problem as well.
What gets me is the people who will be perfectly nice to these two, till they hear them talk then they will say that they can't understand a word my two desk clerks are saying are saying.
I want everyones opinion on this. Are the people who say that can't understand them, really not able to understand them - or are they just saying that because they hear an accent? If they can't really understand them, is it truly because they have trouble hearing the words, or is it because their minds just shut down without the listener consciously doing it?

I personally see it more as a prejudiced behavior (intentional or not).

Unfamiliar accents can definitely throw one for a loop.

In the past I worked with a man from India, and when I first started working with him I swear I could only understand maybe one word out of five. A few years later, as we moved on to other jobs, I had no difficulty at all understanding him. I don't think his English pronunciation had improved at all, whereas my comprehension had improved a lot.

Right now I work with a man from China. Same story. When he first joined my team five years ago, I couldn't understand him at all. Now I can.

I'm not saying there isn't any prejudice involved in what's happening with the people you work with. On the other hand, I have first hand experience of how difficult it can be to understand someone with a strong accent at first.

I feel you brother... It's just negligence by those people to refuse and accept anyone who doesn't speak English at the same level as a native speaker, however, this most of the time happens in the USA; no offense, but some, not all, and I repeat.. SOME Americans simply can't stand to speak with people that don't speak a perfect English or an English without an accent. Unfortunately if you learn a language after the age of 12 you are most likely to have an accent, which is totally fine because it will decrease with in most cases will always be there...at least a part of it.

I believe this might be due to the concentration of the immigrant groups into the States, face it, yes the States has people from all over the world but how many of them come from Latin America..? 40 million!! my point here is that immigrant groups in USA are so high from certain ethnics that it causes huge controversy within the country. These people refuse to learn the English language because since their ethnic group is so high they can live their whole life in the States without ever speaking a single word in English.
Have you ever been to Florida? 60% of the population of Miami are Cubans, I know a friend here in Canada who moved from Miami, he lived there for 8 years and he had to take ESL (English as a Second Language) classes because he didn't know a word of English!! How is this possible? Well because the American government doesn't do anything about it, and SOME people in the States get frustrated because every time they go to KFC for some chicken some guy with an incomprehensible English is on the other side so they develop this theory that "all immigrants are the same". I don't blame then though. If you were robbed by a Mexican 10 times wouldn't you be scared the 11th time that you see one? Does this mean all Mexicans are like that? (I'm Mexican myself lol that's why I used that example ).

I believe that the US government should start taking some actions and do like they do it here in Canada... Do you want to live here? Then go to ESL classes and learn English otherwise you can't. That's how it is trust me, I came here 7 months ago and I know a very good English with almost no accent at all, but that's because I've been learning it since the age of 7. My parents on the other hand, are right now taking ESL haha but that's how the boat floats here.

Many people have difficulties understanding a new accent the first time they hear it. There aren't that many Bosnians and Kazhaks running around the US, so the majority of your guests may be hearing those accents the for first time. The staff don't have a problem, because they've heard your coworkers speak many times.

Then again, there are jerks out there who are being difficult because they can...

I don't really see it as people refusing to learn English; I see it as people trying hard to get by in life and not having time or energy to attend English class when they can get by in their native language. It's worth noting that pretty much anytime the government offers a free language class, it fills up instantly. I think the best thing the US government could do is increase the number of free English classes. Also, I don't know about Canada but many immigrants we get can barely read and write their native language. You could hardly expect them to pick up English right away if they only have a 3rd grade education in their native langauge, and they are now 30 years old.

Having said this, it is frustrating when I go to a shop and have trouble placing an order in English because the clerk doesn't understand me. I found that it is not always possible to communicate with people in certain professions if you don't speak Spanish (or whatever). I had subconsciously assimilated this as being "normal" and not thought much about it, until I was on a trip to Italy and my boyfriend had a conversation in Italian with a hotel maid, who was a native-born Italian. This struck me as being "weird"; I thought "Wow, she speaks Italian?". I think that was the first time it occurred to me that in other countries, you don't have to be able to speak a second language to be able to talk to the cleaning staff of hotels. Sad but true, at least in my region.

edgarsitow:however, this most of the time happens in the USA; no offense...

That's a pretty sweeping statement! I've never known anyone to "refuse to accept" someone because of their accent (other reasons maybe)...after all, as you point out, the US is the quintessential immigrant nation--somewhere in every American's family there was an accent.

edgarsitow:I believe that the US government should start taking some actions and do like they do it here in Canada...

The US tends to be pretty strongly libertarian in that regard--English is not the official language of the country and it doesn't look like it will be any time soon. That's why on election day, we have translators for Spanish, Chinese, etc. It is a little crazy...

Is it that difficult to understand someone with an accent? We have a lot of European, Chinese and Arabic immigrants here in Venezuela and I have NEVER felt that it was impossible to understand them because of their accents. Perhaps the Spanish pronunciation is not that difficult, but if a foreigner is able of constructing a sentence, we can understand them… somehow.

Certainly it is much more difficult for me to understand the English pronunciation of some Indians, Africans, Asians, and east-Europeans, but I always thought it was because English was not my mother tongue, not because they were really incomprehensible. Nevertheless, even with those stronger accents I have been able to get along… asking them to repeat again… and getting the sense of the whole phrase by the context. I don’t know, I think it’s a matter of attitude. Prejudice no doubts is underlying at least a small percentage of those “misunderstandings”…

On a trip to the US a few years ago I was driving through Tennessee ( the I-24 I think, but don't quote me). Needing petrol, I stopped at a 'gas station'.
The scene that followed was truly comedic, with two native 'english' speakers completely unable to make ourselves understood. I don't think the cashier had ever heard a yorkshire accent before...

mccambjd:

edgarsitow:however, this most of the time happens in the USA; no offense...

That's a pretty sweeping statement! I've never known anyone to "refuse to accept" someone because of their accent (other reasons maybe)...after all, as you point out, the US is the quintessential immigrant nation--somewhere in every American's family there was an accent.

edgarsitow:I believe that the US government should start taking some actions and do like they do it here in Canada...

The US tends to be pretty strongly libertarian in that regard--English is not the official language of the country and it doesn't look like it will be any time soon. That's why on election day, we have translators for Spanish, Chinese, etc. It is a little crazy...

I'm saying this because a year ago when I was still living in Mexico I had a job as a DSL & Dial up tech support agent, all using a phone and inbound calls. The call centre was located in Mexico but all the clients we helped were from the States. First of all we weren't allowed to reveal our location because "The Americans want to feel like if they were talking to someone located in USA" they never mentioned why... I never had problems with anyone regarding the minimal "accent" that I have except for one lady that when I said the classic "Thank you for calling bla bla bla my name is bla bla bla, What can I do for you?" She just said "Can you put me on the phone with someone that speaks English?" You could imagine how I felt due to that *1 point for a reason to learn Esperanto* I like to think that maybe she was just angry, who knows..., but I also had friends that CRIED for the things that some people told them. My friend couldn't stop crying because she messed up by telling the customer that we were located in Mexico and the guy said that he didn't want to speak to any (excuse my German) F::*ing beaner and that he wanted to speak to a white person! I found that pretty harsh honestly but as I was saying, not everyone is like that, I also got a chance to speak with some of the nicest people ever, even this guy who after I told him Spanish was my first language he just said "Wow I admire you I took Spanish classes for years and I can't speak it like you speak your English, Seriously I admire every single person that tries so hard to learn English" that filled me with joy and it's one of the reasons why I kept learning languages....

And about the government issue, you said it's a little crazy so wouldn't you agree that it would be better if everybody started learning English..? I think it would do good for the country and the individuals as well. It's not to discuss that someone who speaks English in the States has better opportunities of being successful It would benefit everyone. Or let's all learn Esperanto!!

And yes in Canada we also receive a lot of immigrants that have never been to school and are completely illiterate, some are in my school... and their parents in the ESL school for adults, I know it's hard but not impossible, trust me just by being here you have to get something out of those classes. Not to mention that the media and everything is in English. You can't escape from the language therefore you will learn no matter how long it takes. Put anyone with a 3rd grade education in a foreign country and when the need for survival comes they will lean the language, trust me.

Sorry if I offended anyone but those are just my personal experiences and opinions so I wanted to share them with you guys

Look at it this way... People will hold regional accents against people (not just in the US, but everywhere), so it's hardly surprising when they hold foreign accents against them. I'm from Rhode Island and although I've lived in Philadelphia for almost 30 years, I still have enough RI left in my accent that people notice it. In the South, I get "yankee" comments, and of course Southerners get plenty of "hillbilly" comments when they are in the North. I've seen English northerners teased in London, etc.

As far as foreign accents are concerned, some people are just xenophobic, and when they hear a foreign accent they use it as an excuse to shut down. It's regrettable, but true.

I love Montreal, but I've sometimes had trouble using French there. In many cases, as soon as they hear my accent, they switch to English, seemingly impatient with my French. I can sympathize but it's still disappointing.

Customer service on the telephone is another matter. First of all, telephone audio is not the best, so information is lost. The likelihood of misunderstanding is increased. As a general thing, when people call Customer Service, they're already in a bad mood. Many people are upset about the outsourcing of those jobs to other countries. So when you add together the difficulties of accent, telephone transmission, political issues, and a bad mood to start with...some drama is likely.