Well, I don't have any real complaints about Esperanto itself. Of course, it has its imperfections, but then I don't think anyone's been able to think of a better solution for an international language. And the more you learn Esperanto, the more you grow to appreciate it.

The problem of people such as Viktor Pajuk:

I am relatively new to "Esperantujo" (the world of Esperanto), but I have come across rather unsavoury attitudes from some "Esperantistoj" (Esperantists). Viktor Pajuk is a good example. He has recently expressed some rather racist opinions on the site "Libera Folio" - check this out (search for the word 'agento' and this will take you to his comment, which is titled "Malnovaj metodoj?" - he has rather odd ideas about Halle Berry, for example): Esperantistoj ellaboras eŭropan patriotismon

You won't believe this, but Viktor Pajuk actually used to be the President of the Ukrainian Esperanto Asociation (check out the Vikipedia site about him: Viktor Pajuk) I find it shocking that a person with such extreme opinions could become the president of a country's Esperanto Association!! One could wonder just what that says about the Esperantists in that country... But, then maybe, he somehow managed to keep his extremist attitudes hidden back then. I find this difficult to believe, but then who knows? Still, this could suggest that Esperanto Associations should be a somewhat more thorough about how they elect their leaders!

The existence of racism, nationalism and xenophobia within the world of Esperanto speakers is hardly surprising - such things exist everywhere in the world, so why not in Esperantujo?! Still, I think we should all work hard to keep such extremism out of the national Esperanto Associations and the Universal Esperanto Association. I support the notion of neutrality within these associations. Ok, so extremists, racists or whoever are always free to set up their own organisations etc and use the Esperanto language. After all, Esperanto is a tool, and it can be used by anyone. But, the main organisations of Esperanto should be kept as free as possible from such extremism. I also think the Esperanto Associations that are member organisations of the Universal Esperanto Association should also try to remain as neutral as possible, they shouldn't get involved in politics etc. I see their purpose as encouraging the use of Esperanto as a tool, preserving the standards of simplicity within the language etc. Outside these institutions people are, of course, free to use Esperanto as they please. I'm not against Viktor Pajuk setting up his own (hopefully small) Esperanto organisation for those inclined towards more extremist, perhaps even racist opinions. But, that should be separate from the central and neutral organisations for the Esperanto language.

The problem of people such as Zlatko Tisxlar:

Issues of politics etc ought to be dealt with by society as a whole, and Esperantists can express themselves through mainstream political parties. Being an Esperanto speaker doesn't mean you have to conform to a particular point of view! I just don't understand why the European Esperanto Association under the guidance of Zlatko Tišljar is getting itself involved in politics!? (Read the whole of the above link to understand what I mean). He sent off a politically charged letter to the European Union, but under whose name?! It's not as if all the current members of Esperanto movements across Europe made a political decision when they signed up with their national Esperanto association! Perhaps that's what Zlatko Tisxlar wants - the splitting of the existing Esperanto Associations into various groups with differing political aspirations! And then we'd end up with the ridiculous situation of being left with no central (and neutral) associations that concern themselves simply with the neutral language, the use of a tool for international communication.

I would suggest, that if Zlatko Tisxlar wants to follow a political path with Esperanto, then he should set up his own separate organisation or political party - and then people could make the political choice to join him, or not.

On the positive side...

Such problems are not due to the language itself. There's no way we can control how people use Esperanto and rightly so! I support the learning of Esperanto because I believe it can (and already does) help international communication. The motivation of people like Zlatko Tisxlar, seems to be borne out of a sense of frustration that Esperanto is not taking off, not gaining wider acceptance at a faster rate. He seems to think that by politicising Esperanto associations, then this will somehow mean that non-Esperantist decision makers within the national governments of Europe will respect the Esperanto association more and maybe even agree with the idea of Esperanto playing a unifying role in Europe. This seems to be a rather dodgy and dangerous path to take. Politics can go horribly wrong, especially ones with strong hints of chauvinism.

I don't understand the impatience of people such as Zlatko Tisxlar - who cares if the use of Esperanto is not exactly taking off?! There's already a lot of people using it. We can't force people to use it - we should just try to use Esperanto in positive ways, which can only encourage more people to become interested in it. And, it's not as if any politicization of the Esperanto Associations is going to help in any more positive ways - I mean, it's not like the politically charged letter of Zlatko is going to make the European Union suddenly say "Hey, yeah, let's just go and introduce Esperanto because Mr Tisxlar clearly has a really cool vision of European citizenship!" Any future greater use of Esperanto will only ever begin from the roots up, not the other way round! In fact, I would say that the political views of Zlatko Tisxlar and his determination to mix these into the world of the European Esperanto Association will only ever slow down the progress of Esperanto - I mean, he's certainly doing a pretty good job at putting off people in the islamic world from joining up to the idea of Esperanto!

I would just like mention that I do not draw any comparisons between Zlatko Tisxlar and Viktor Pajuk. The latter is clearly a very different case to the former....!

Esperanto in itself is a very good idea. It can be used for great and noble purposes. I hope that people will continue to learn it, and that new people will be willing to start learning it.

I think I should perhaps have posted my comments in a separate thread, as I do not want to criticize the language itself! It's just a matter of how people choose to use it.

If you read the link I posted, you will also notice that the UEA (Universal Esperanto Association) distanced itself from the Zlatko Tisxlar letter.

Other readers of the Libera Folio also supported me in my criticism and shock relating to the comments of Viktor Pajuk.

I think it's simply very important not to attribute certain political views to the language of Esperanto itself. It's a tool, full stop (period, for American readers).

ceigered:While I agree that I overestimate the flexibility of the language, I must ask rather ignorantly

I was responding to my interpretation of the meaning of your very first post in this thread. Perhaps I was reading too much into your very brief words on the topic!

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Regarding presidencies of Esperanto associations, the election is often a very informal affair. In many associations, no one really wants to be president, so it comes down to, who feels like doing the work involved with it? If your group doesn't meet up frequently (and a national organization meets maybe a couple times a year), you really would not know this person's views unless they were really outspoken.

The president of the Washington DC society has been president for years, with no real election. It's not a large group and no one else wants the job, anyway. The "job" mainly consists of organizing our annual Zamenhof banquet, and helping out of town Esperantists meet up with locals for coffee or tourism. I think this is common. I have known him for perhaps 4 years or so, and I don't know his views about anything at all. (Jim, if you're reading this, of course I'm not implying that you have some hidden offensive opinions!)

erinja:

ceigered:While I agree that I overestimate the flexibility of the language, I must ask rather ignorantly

I was responding to my interpretation of the meaning of your very first post in this thread. Perhaps I was reading too much into your very brief words on the topic!

Ah yes that makes sense now, sorry about that (to be honest I can't remember what was going through my mind so feel free to interpret it how you want haha).

@ Chainy - I'd agree with your comments about Esperanto being a tool - as soon as it transcends from a communication tool to a political vehicle things get a fair bit complicated and the stakes are risen, quite possibly to a point that we who like this crazy little language don't want to be at

erinja:It's not a large group and no one else wants the job, anyway.

I had heard that you guys weren't meeting anymore. Is that not the case? If so, I only live about two hours North of you and would love to attend a meeting every now and then when I can. Right now, I'm trying hard to get to the gathering in May, but I might have to go to China around the same time. (I'm trying hard to get that trip moved back a week)

Regarding the imperfections of Esperanto - for mi, this is what gives Esperanto its flavor and character. If it was perfect, it would be boring. Imperfections allow us to make puns and have fun. But perhaps that's just me. Since I am so imperfect myself, i would not tolerate a perfect language.

I started learning Esperanto in 1980, but since I was the only esperantist for a hundred miles, and corresponding with other esperantists by paper mail required a lot of patience, I soon became frustrated. I attended an ELNA conference in Boston in 1985 and despaired at every achieving a fluency which allowed me to converse easily. So, while I never quit Esperanto, it languished in my home until 2005 when I moved to the San Francisco Bay area in California, where there are a lot of very fine esperantists, and I basically started learning all over again.

Okay, I still despair at ever gaining fluency, but I'm having fun, and the study no longer languishes.

So the point of this too long missive is that I believe a lot of people become frustrated because it can be an lonely activity. Frustration leads to complaints, and all the difficulties of the situation become exaggerated in their minds.

I think there are basically two motivations for coming onto an Esperanto forum and complaining about Esperanto.

The first motivation is just your plain ol' internet trollery. "What can I do to stir up the anthill?" is basically the only question this group is actually seeking answers to. Trolls are generally easy to spot and, for those of us who've been on the internet for a reasonable length of time, ignore. Luckily, if enough ants ignore them, they move on to a new anthill.

I think the second (and probably more prevalent) reason comes from people who've run into some roadblocks, trying to convince themselves that studying Esperanto is a waste of time, because 1: blah blah blah, and 2: blah blah blah, and 3: etc., and so their inability to learn it isn't really THEIR fault, it's the fault of Esperanto.

I think a lot of times people new to the subject think Esperanto is something that it isn't (i.e., 100% logical and regular, so easy they can learn it in a day, etc.), and get very disappointed when they start seeing "flaws". If their progress hasn't been as good as they over-optimistically think it should have been, the "flaws" are the obvious reason for it, and so the learning stops and the complaints begin. Eventually these people either stop complaining, accept the "flaws", and learn the language, or they convince themselves that the "flaws" are too pervasive to make continuing worthwhile, and they quit with their ego intact.

Lucky for us, we get to witness this devolution from student to critic to ex-Esperantist publicly. Because if it wasn't public, how would anyone know that they quit because of the severe problems with the language and not for some other, more personal, reasons?

Well, in a way I think criticism is not insane (except if it's trollism).

It proves that people are not silly and try to understand the logic behind the language, and finally faces that Esperanto is not that logic (compared to the "so-called" ideal language that do not exist and most probably will never exist). I personnally have a real problem with name of countries in esperanto... But I don't go any further into the debate ^^".

Because esperanto is man-made, one can consider he has the right to criticise. It's like a piece of art, you like or not. But you can not criticise a thing built by "natural" evolution (like national languages), because it is what it is.