qwertz:oooo! That was really difficult to explain in English. Hopefully I got the right non-offending words in English.

Your every word offends me /sarcasm

qwertz:Poooo! That was really difficult to explain in English. Hopefully I got the right non-offending words in English.

There are offending words there?

qwertz:In my opinion, that's a matter due to the brains economical function someone has to explain/ to get accepted its brain that something still working perfectly could need some enhancement.

That's an interesting thing - I wonder if there are ways to help this process without causing any degree of shock or trauma - after all, we humans hate change, but it would be nice to be able to easily adapt to things...

lavagulo:I don't particularly like the word "ĝardeno". I think it sounds artificial.

That should change, as you get used to it. I remember being uneasy as a beginner about Kiel vi fartas? for reasons that speakers of English will understand. It doesn't bother me much now.

ceigered:

Congratulations on reaching 2000 messages!

Hello ceigered, and thanks. You are correct and I accept your argument. Actually, I long ago accepted what you, and erinja, and tommjames, and Alciona, and the others are saying. I'm not entirely stupid. I saw the point you were all trying to make and I am practical enough to understand that if you are trying to use Esperanto to speak to a person who doesn't understand any language you know, then you are going to have to accept the vocabulary of Esperanto, however "weird" it may seem.

I am, however, contrary enough not to go down without a fight. I still maintain that ĝardeno is an imprecise word. It must be modified too much -- ĝardenego, ĝardeneto, ĝardenaĉo, rokĝardeno, rozĝardeno, florĝardeno, legumĝardeno, etc, etc, ad infinitum. While this is what makes Esperanto easier to learn than national languages, it can also muddy the exchange of info from one person to another.

I think the focus of this thread has now shifted. I understand and have accepted the arguments being made. Yet the explanations and arguments continue to come. That means that some others are not listening to what I am actually saying, they are still a bit outraged that I had the audacity to criticize their esteemed language and are not going to let me off the hook without "getting their ounce of blood".

I approach Esperanto from a practical and utilitarian point of view. It is a tool intended for communications between people who don't speak the same language. The idealistic view that Esperanto will stop all wars is nonsense. There have been enough civil wars fought between people who speak the same language in the last century to disprove that if people are willing to think about it. We human beings are flawed. We are imperfect. Common sense (a truly rare comodity) will tell you that. The teachings of the Bible will tell you that.

On two occasions last year I had the opportunity to exchange emails with non-English speaking people. One was a man from Estonia and the other was a woman from France. They didn't speak English and I don't speak their native languages. While it took a lot of effort, I really enjoyed the exchange of emails with them. Then I got sick. I had two operations and then pneumonia hit me. I sort of lost interest in a lot of things and let the exchange of emails lapse. I wonder if I could reestablish it?. It was a genuine thrill. This is what Esperanto is all about. A few days ago a new message popped up in the "My corner" of lernu!. It was a short email in Esperanto from a woman from Bulgaria. I answered her in Esperanto. So far she hasn't answered my email but I hope she does.

Yes, Miland. Farti is a small hill to get over. Peni is another.

And congratulations, ceigered. Your next goal is 3000.

lavagulo:I approach Esperanto from a practical and utilitarian point of view.

I think I’m in same boat, I don't believe Esperanto will ever stop wars, or would become the international language in my lifetime. However I believe as humans, we strive to perfect everything around us, and just too generally try make like better. So why in my eyes - should language be any different! Thus I’m learning Esperanto; the most logical (but not too logical as to be boring) language every created. It’s like a perfect balance between logic and beauty. And I love the special letters ĉ, ŝ, ĥ, ŭ, ĵ, they just make it look unique (jes even the ĥ).

Evildela:

qwertz:oooo! That was really difficult to explain in English. Hopefully I got the right non-offending words in English.

Your every word offends me /sarcasm

Aarrgh. I'm zuu zurrie about (getting malgrande)

ceigered:

qwertz:In my opinion, that's a matter due to the brains economical function someone has to explain/ to get accepted its brain that something still working perfectly could need some enhancement.

That's an interesting thing - I wonder if there are ways to help this process without causing any degree of shock or trauma - after all, we humans hate change, but it would be nice to be able to easily adapt to things...

Sorry about that NLP excursion. (It contains some interesting ideas i.e. "Everything is a lie, including NLP". That way your are capable to change your beliefs and doesn't stuck. Probably somewhat atheistic view.)

Yes, of course! "Having fun" could motivate to change you. Okay, sometimes "Having fun" can solidify your beliefs. I.e. some friends tell me one and onces again: "You are too old for that Hip Hop thing. Just look around everybody is XXX years younger than you." Em, o~kay. That doesn't matter. I like that word juggling thing anyway.

Miland:

ceigered:

Congratulations on reaching 2000 messages!

Yes, con-eg-grat's from my side, too!

lavagulo:
And congratulations, ceigered. Your next goal is 3000.

Okay, next month, isn't? "Man wächst an seinen Herausforderungen"/ Somebody grows up with its challenges. But don't touch the moon and putting the flag on it. You will damage the ozon layer! /ŝerco

Evildela: And I love the special letters ĉ, ŝ, ĥ, ŭ, ĵ, they just make it look unique (jes even the ĥ).

I do so, too. It makes Esperanto - em - se#y.

lavagulo:Hello ceigered, and thanks. You are correct and I accept your argument. Actually, I long ago accepted what you, and erinja, and tommjames, and Alciona, and the others are saying. I'm not entirely stupid.

I do hope none of us thought that, and I apologise if I contributed to the impression that we might have thought that - I must admit, while at risk of giving someone the impression that I'm treating them unintelligently, I prefer to continuously clarify what I'm saying more out of worry that I'm not making sense to everyone (I have little trust in my ability to communicate).

While this is what makes Esperanto easier to learn than national languages, it can also muddy the exchange of info from one person to another.

True. I still find that this parallels English, French, Indonesian, and Chinese though. Maybe we as a general human population are incapable of easily remembering and focusing on a large lexicon of precise definitions? (I say "as a general population" because I'm sure every language has some bit of their language with precise nuances and other bits with nuances worth less than sludge ).

That means that some others are not listening to what I am actually saying, they are still a bit outraged that I had the audacity to criticize their esteemed language and are not going to let me off the hook without "getting their ounce of blood".

If you're feeling particularly generous with your blood supply I recommend listing reasons why Ido is better than Esperanto - I tried that once I think, must be why I'm so light headed these days .[/quote]

qwertz:Yes, of course! "Having fun" could motivate to change you.

Fun? What is this strange concept? O_O



About hip hop though, another one is videogames - they're very fun, but unfortunately there is still some stigma that they are only for kids / NEETs.

Re accent marks, I've grown to the point where they just look Esperanty to me they're not strange or sexy, just Esperanty (as cyrillic is to Russian/Ukrainian/bulgarian etc). I do wonder if French influenced the marks though - there is no "û" in EO, maybe that is to prevent French people from thinking "û" is derived from some "us" combination (not that I think they would have, but who knows with Zamenhoff - bless his soul).

Lavagulo:So far she hasn't answered my email but I hope she does.

I'm very guilty of not replying to people's emails as Miland and no doubt some other lernu! members might know

As for my 2000 posts, thanks y'all. At the rate I'm going, I expect to hit 3000 this time next year Pity that there's more carp than substance to my posts (replace "carp" with the word some of you might say when you see that fish!!!)

BTW - on the ORIGINAL topic - anyone checked out Esperanto words on Forvo?
And did anyone mention Livemocha.org?

ceigered: - on the ORIGINAL topic - anyone ...

Ah yes. The word "resources" has been miss-spelt. Of course that furthers causes like the Simplified Spelling Society.