Postitused: 51
Keel: English
darkweasel (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 11:59.50
horsto:Even in German Wissen cannot be plural.tommjames:Haha, does that mean that because you can't have informations you also can't have knowledges?horsto:the subject changes the knowledges (if this is the right word)In English "knowledge" is a mass noun so you wouldn't use it plurally.. unlike in Esperanto.
Sorry for laughing, but that sounds funny to me, I didn't know that (or I forgot it).
horsto (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 12:09.24
darkweasel:But Informationen and Kenntnisse. I know that also in the german language some words don't have a plural.
Even in German Wissen cannot be plural.
Do you know some Esperanto words without plural? Or some Esperanto words without singular, as f.e. spagetoj.
tommjames (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 12:29.42
horsto:Haha, does that mean that because you can't have informations you also can't have knowledges? Sorry for laughing, but that sounds funny to me, I didn't know that (or I forgot it).Pretty much yes. In English it is sometimes possible to pluralise mass nouns, with the meaning of "types of" the noun. An example from Wikipedia: "Many cleaning agents today are technically not soaps, but detergents". You might also speak of "waters" as in areas of the sea. I don't think this kind of thing would ever apply to "knowledge" and "information" though.
There are some more examples of English mass nouns in the Wikipedia article. Might be useful to you.
darkweasel (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 12:35.04
horsto:Sure. Akvo, sukero, and similar ones (at least usually you wouldn't use them in plural). Also all words with the suffix -ec-.darkweasel:But Informationen and Kenntnisse. I know that also in the german language some words don't have a plural.
Even in German Wissen cannot be plural.
Do you know some Esperanto words without plural?
horsto:Or some Esperanto words without singular, as f.e. spagetoj.Why is spagetoj a plural-only word in your opinion? A single spaghetti noodle of course is a spageto.
Examples of real plural-only words are lasanjoj and most of the time olimpikoj (though according to ReVo a few Esperantists do use olimpiko as a singular noun), also the adjective pluraj.
tommjames (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 12:50.10
darkweasel:according to ReVo a few Esperantists do use olimpiko as a singular nounThey say the same with regards to "datumo":
ReVo:Multaj uzas nur la multenombran formon "datumoj", kvankam ĉe aliaj aŭtoroj ne maloftas ankaŭ la ununombra uzado.No doubt influence from natlangs plays a part in it. Personally I'm sticking with the plural form.
Many people only use the plural form "datumoj", though with other authors it's not uncommon to see the singular usage.
horsto (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 13:00.20
darkweasel:I think that akvo does have a plural form, as water has in the english and german languages.
Sure. Akvo, sukero, and similar ones (at least usually you wouldn't use them in plural). Also all words with the suffix -ec-.
darkweasel:I think that spagetoj is the name of the food. Do you know the german singular form?
Why is spagetoj a plural-only word in your opinion? A single spaghetti noodle of course is a spageto.
@tommjames: Thanks for the information
tommjames (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 13:29.42
horsto:I think that akvo does have a plural formI agree. I've seen "akvoj" many times.
Also I see no problem pluralising -ec words. I just searched Tekstaro for that too with \\b\\w+ecojn?\\b and there are plenty of hits.
darkweasel (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 13:34.42
horsto:I think in German it indeed doesn't have a singular form, we usually use Spag(h)etti-Nudel to describe a single noodle. People with some knowledge of Italian will understand Spag(h)etto.
I think that spagetoj is the name of the food. Do you know the german singular form?
And while SPAGET/ clearly is used in the plural most of the time, there clearly is no problem with calling a single noodle a spageto (a form even in ReVo).
erinja (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 16:51.16
darkweasel:Examples of real plural-only words are lasanjojTo me it is clear that a single noodle of the sort used in that dish is a "lasanjo". The completed dish (a whole stack of noodles with accompanying fillings) would be "lasanjoj".
horsto (Näita profiili) 15. mai 2010 17:30.25
darkweasel:Perhaps you're right, but then also erinja is right.
And while SPAGET/ clearly is used in the plural most of the time, there clearly is no problem with calling a single noodle a spageto (a form even in ReVo).
.
btw. sukero has perhaps no plural form, perhaps it has, for example when you speak about different types of sugar, f.e. la diversaj sukeroj estas produktitaj en ...
But speaking about one piece of sugar, doesn't it look strange?
sukerero