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Grammar

de ailebol, 27 de maio de 2010

Mensagens: 8

Idioma: English

ailebol (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de maio de 2010 03:14:38

If I'm going home is: Mi iras hejmen, why is come quickly not: venu rapiden?

dukemasuya (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de maio de 2010 03:36:39

ailebol:If I'm going home is: Mi iras hejmen, why is come quickly not: venu rapiden?
Well, I'm not quite sure how to explain this but, to say "Come quickly" we say "Venu rapide" so there is no "n" there. The "e" ending there is for adverbs.

The "en" for "Mi iras hejmen" is there because it's going to a location.

Can someone else give me a hand explaining this? Dankon! If I come up with another way of explaining myself, I'll write back. ridego.gif

3rdblade (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de maio de 2010 04:24:35

Hejm- means home, hejme makes it into an adverb, which means it describes the verb, which in this case is 'iras'. Lastly the '-n' is there to indicate direction, sort of like the suffix '-ward'. "Where are you going?" I'm going 'homewardly'" is my best approximation in inelegant English. In English we say 'I'm going home', avoiding for some reason the 'to' that we normally use in that sentence (eg. 'I'm going to school', rather than 'I'm going school'). Speaking as a teacher of English, I can tell you that this has baffled many of my students over the years. (My explanation is that home in this case is a direction, like 'west', not a place. Contrast that with two distinct words in Esperanto, 'hejmo' for the place and 'hejmen' for the direction).

For the other one, there's no place indicated so there's no need to use the '-n' suffix to indicate movement from one place to another. The adverb 'rapide' modifies the verb, 'venu', and there's no more to it.

dukemasuya (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de maio de 2010 04:27:46

3rdblade:Hejm- means home, hejme makes it into an adverb, which means it describes the verb, which in this case is 'iras'. Lastly the '-n' is there to indicate direction, sort of like the suffix '-ward'. "Where are you going?" I'm going 'homewardly'" is my best approximation in inelegant English. In English we say 'I'm going home', avoiding for some reason the 'to' that we normally use in that sentence (eg. 'I'm going to school', rather than 'I'm going school'). Speaking as a teacher of English, I can tell you that this has baffled many of my students over the years. (My explanation is that home in this case is a direction, like 'west', not a place. Contrast that with two distinct words in Esperanto, 'hejmo' for the place and 'hejmen' for the direction).

For the other one, there's no place indicated so there's no need to use the '-n' suffix to indicate movement from one place to another. The adverb 'rapide' modifies the verb, 'venu', and there's no more to it.
Yes, that is exactly what I thinking but I just couldn't explain it. Dankegon kara amiko!

erinja (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de maio de 2010 14:34:52

As a brief note, the -en to indicate direction can only be used with nouns indicating a location. "Fast" is not a noun, nor is it a location. So you can ask yourself this question, when you wonder whether you can (or should) use the -en construction - "Is it a location that I am moving towards?"

No location, no -en.

ailebol (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de maio de 2010 17:19:46

Dankon amikoj:

I thought the en construction was there,in this case, because of action and not place.
Mi nun komprenas.

Ailebol

ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de maio de 2010 16:34:40

Ŝiru_Ĉi_Tie:
ailebol:Dankon amikoj:

I thought the en construction was there,in this case, because of action and not place.
Mi nun komprenas.

Ailebol
If I understand this right the -en construction is there because of action (it's not -on, as just an objective noun construction) but it's both an action and towards some place so it's not just an -e construction. Correct me if I'm wrong...
You might be overanalysing it - put simply, -en is a marker for adverbs which describe movement or direction to a location. So, "Li kuris stacidomen" - "He runs to the station house".

Adverbs = anything that describes the manner or operation of an action/verb.

There's nothing more to it really, it's really an allative case for Esperanto.

(see also the extended Wiktionary definition - note that Esperanto may deal with it a tiny bit differently to the true allative case in other languages)

ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de maio de 2010 03:47:01

Ŝiru_Ĉi_Tie:
ceigered:You might be overanalysing it - put simply, -en is a marker for adverbs which describe movement or direction to a location.
Yes, I may be. It's just as a komencento, I have to trigger the use of an adverb in my mind where I would use a 'to...' phrase in my native English and then remember the special case of when that 'to...' phrase refers to motion towards a place requiring the '-n'. My explanation above is how I personally try to do that. rido.gif
Ok sorry ridulo.gif - I just got confused.

But what you said before would have been correct, I think (If you meant that -en would go where "on" would go but signifies direction to a place instead) lango.gif

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