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Pronunciation of tri and tro

di lavagulo, 29 maggio 2010

Messaggi: 25

Lingua: English

lavagulo (Mostra il profilo) 29 maggio 2010 23:01:33

I have a pronunciation question.

Years ago I took two years of Spanish in college. The teacher was a Cuban and he once told me that I had a good Spanish accent. So I never considered Esperanto pronunciation as a challenge. It still isn't but I have a question about it.

Take the two little words tri and tro. For me, the presence of the "r' following the "t" is the problem. Should "tri" sound like the English "tree" or "three", or the "tro", like "tro" as in troll, or "throw"?

Stop and analyze the position of the tongue. In English, the tongue touches the ridge behind the upper front teeth when pronouncing "tr". But when giving the "tr" a slight trill as in Spanish, the tip of the tongue actually touches the bottom of the front teeth. Thus, "tree" vs. "three" and "tro(ll)" vs. "throw".

For those of you who actually engage in speaking Esperanto, which sound are you hearing?

3rdblade (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 03:19:29

Just trill the 'r' a little bit if you can, but if you can't you can probably get away with an English-style 'r'. As an example, I came across the word 'forlasi' quite recently; I find that word hard to say with a trilled 'r' as yet. It's better to trill, especially as in some languages the English 'l' and 'r' are not easily distinguished. I find it easy to distingiush tri and tro because of the vowels and them being different parts of speech (though as yet I haven't spoken much Esperanto).

ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 03:58:14

I don't engage in speaking Esperanto very often, but I can tell you that rolling an TR in Esperanto can be done with the T in an English "T' position. Although I probably recommend the dental position more, since I think there are more languages with a rolled R and dental "t"s and "ds" so it's probably easier this way.

lavagulo (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 10:52:41

Thank you, 3rdblade and ceigered, for your responses. I appreciate your courtesy. But I can produce both the trilled and the untrilled "tr" sound. How to do it wasn't my question. My tongue will cooperate with me either way. But I am trying to determine which is the "correct" Esperanto sound for the "tr" combination, and not the correct English or the correct Spanish sound.

If I have 3 pencils, how do I tell you other Esperanto speakers that in correctly spoken Esperanto? Do I say "tree" krajonoj aŭ "three" krajonoj? If I'm having troubles, do I say "tro" da problemoj, aŭ "throw" da problemoj? It seems to me that if I pronounce "tri" as "tree", I'm going to have an English accent. If I pronounce it as "three", I'm going to have a Spanish accent.

I can say it either way and you would no doubt understand it. But, according to the Esperanto pronunciation guidlines, which is correct?

Miland (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 11:03:22

I would say that in Esperanto we pronounce tri the way that a Spanish speaker might say "tree", and tro the way that a Spanish speaker might say the "tro" in "troll".

Leporino (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 11:18:13

I can say it either way and you would no doubt understand it. But, according to the Esperanto pronunciation guidlines, which is correct?
[url=I can say it either way and you would no doubt understand it. But, according to the Esperanto pronunciation guidlines, which is correct?]Here[/url] you can hear the words with the right pronounciation.

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lavagulo (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 11:56:34

So, putting into my own words what you just said, Miland, I'd pronounce them more as a Spanish (or maybe Italian or Portuguese) speaker would say them. In other words, forget the English pronunciation. That would have to apply to French speakers (and maybe German speakers) also because they both pronounce their "r's" differently.

I've never spoken Esperanto to anyone so I'm really clueless as to how I'd sound to a non-English speaker. Although if I had a chance to converse in Esperanto with you, Miland, it would probably not be my accent that hindered communications, but my ability to come up with the correct words and form them properly in a sentence.

Dankon al vi ĉiuj.
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ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 30 maggio 2010 12:52:55

lavagulo:I'd pronounce them more as a Spanish (or maybe Italian or Portuguese) speaker would say them. In other words, forget the English pronunciation. That would have to apply to French speakers (and maybe German speakers) also because they both pronounce their "r's" differently.
That's what I was trying to say before but I worded it wrongly, I apologise for that! - but yes, dental 't's and rolled r's are very good. Note though that Esperanto is flexible, and allows varying pronunciations - however, if you vary your pronunciation, it's up to the person speaking to ensure that they make everything sound just as clear and understandable for the listener as with any language which has various "accents".

gyrus (Mostra il profilo) 02 giugno 2010 15:38:54

There's only one vortaĉo I can't pronounce: ŝranko.

Miland (Mostra il profilo) 02 giugno 2010 18:15:47

gyrus:There's only one vortaĉo I can't pronounce: ŝranko.
Best suggestion I can think of in the UK: get a Scot to say it and try and imitate him (or her).

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