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Duplicate words?

Majkl,2010年6月6日の

メッセージ: 10

言語: English

Majkl (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月6日 8:22:18

One thing I like about Esperanto is that it doesn't use multiple words for the same thing, unless it's a compo word or affixed.
However, I was wondering about a few of these I found and why there are 2 versions.

verti and flegi both mean "to nurse."
binoklo and lorno both mean "binoculars"
azoto and nitrogeno both mean nitrogen
lilako and siringo both mean lilac
and "mushroom" is listed as 3 words - cxampinjono, sxampinjono, and agariko, not to mention "fungo" also can be used.

Most of these words aren't too common, so it really doesn't matter much, but I was just curious if anyone else has noticed this.

Evildela (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月6日 8:45:36

I'm not sure about most of them as I'm still learning myself, but something I did notice:

You have listed verti as (to nurse) well from my understanding verto is (the top of the head) so I don't know how you got (to nurse) from that (perhaps nurse/ rub your own head). Now I've only ever really used flegi in this sense: flegisto (a nurse) so flegi must mean to attend, and/or to help someone/ to nurse them. Anyways if I'm wrong someone else is bound of correct me.

Miland (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月6日 9:52:38

Majkl:verti and flegi both mean "to nurse."
That should be varti.
Lorno is a monocular spyglass, so far as I can tell.
Azoto is an older word for nitrogeno.
According to PIV 2005, ĉampinjono is an example of agariko, which in turn is an example of fungo. So they are not quite the same, though it might not matter much in practice since all three can be used to say "mushroom".

Majkl (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月6日 9:53:39

Evildela:I'm not sure about most of them as I'm still learning myself, but something I did notice:

You have listed verti as (to nurse) well from my understanding verto is (the top of the head) so I don't know how you got (to nurse) from that (perhaps nurse/ rub your own head). Now I've only ever really used flegi in this sense: flegisto (a nurse) so flegi must mean to attend, and/or to help someone/ to nurse them. Anyways if I'm wrong someone else is bound of correct me.
Sorry, I meant "varti"

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月6日 11:11:30

To further extrapolate on "mushroom":

Fungo = fungus
Lamenfungo = layer fungus, e.g. mushroom

Agariko = Agaricus, an important genus of mushrooms, so practically the word for "mushroom" (Note: "agaric-" can also refer all the way up to the subphylum "Agaricomycotina", so while "agariko" would seemingly point to just one group of mushrooms, it could also likely refer to a whole class of mushrooms as well.

Ĉampinjono = this is an actual type of mushroom, the common mushroom - the most eaten one (Agaricus bisporus) (from ReVo: bongusta fungo ofte kun blanketa ĉapelo. - Tasty fungus often with a whitish hat)

And ŝampinjono seems like a superfluous French neologism, seeming as "ĉampinjono" is just the same word, only with a more EO pronunciation.

--
And concerning varti & flegi, from ReVo

VARTI
Gardi kaj zorgi estulon, kiu bezonas helpon pro sia juneco
"Guard and care for a creature, which needs help because of its youthfulness".

FLEGI
Prizorgi malsanulon, kaj igi lin observi la kuracadon.
"Worry about a sick person, and make him observe the treatment".

So, you "vartas" a pup, or baby, or kitten. You "flegas" a child with tonsillitis, a patient, or a child who scraped their knee on gravel.

I've got dictionary editing privileges so I'll go fix this up okulumo.gif (by extension, if anyone notices I've put in wrong definitions, please let me know or correct it if you have privileges)

Majkl (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月6日 17:32:28

ceigered:To further extrapolate on "mushroom":

Fungo = fungus
Lamenfungo = layer fungus, e.g. mushroom

Agariko = Agaricus, an important genus of mushrooms, so practically the word for "mushroom" (Note: "agaric-" can also refer all the way up to the subphylum "Agaricomycotina", so while "agariko" would seemingly point to just one group of mushrooms, it could also likely refer to a whole class of mushrooms as well.

Ĉampinjono = this is an actual type of mushroom, the common mushroom - the most eaten one (Agaricus bisporus) (from ReVo: bongusta fungo ofte kun blanketa ĉapelo. - Tasty fungus often with a whitish hat)

And ŝampinjono seems like a superfluous French neologism, seeming as "ĉampinjono" is just the same word, only with a more EO pronunciation.

--
And concerning varti & flegi, from ReVo

VARTI
Gardi kaj zorgi estulon, kiu bezonas helpon pro sia juneco
"Guard and care for a creature, which needs help because of its youthfulness".

FLEGI
Prizorgi malsanulon, kaj igi lin observi la kuracadon.
"Worry about a sick person, and make him observe the treatment".

So, you "vartas" a pup, or baby, or kitten. You "flegas" a child with tonsillitis, a patient, or a child who scraped their knee on gravel.

I've got dictionary editing privileges so I'll go fix this up okulumo.gif (by extension, if anyone notices I've put in wrong definitions, please let me know or correct it if you have privileges)
Ah. That clears things up perfectly. Thanks!

SylviasDaddy (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月21日 15:05:57

I have been told that Dachshund can be either "vertago" or "melhundo" -- the Vortaro splits the first into "truth" and "day" and does not list the second.

Can anybody clarify?

Miland (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月21日 19:14:53

SylviasDaddy:I have been told that Dachshund can be either "vertago" or "melhundo". Can anybody clarify?
They are synonyms for badger-dog or dachshund. Vertago comes from the Latin Canis Vertagus, while melo (and the german dachs) mean "badger".

Splitting vertago into "truth" and "day" is wrong, and someone needs to edit that.

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月22日 5:50:18

Miland:Splitting vertago into "truth" and "day" is wrong, and someone needs to edit that.
Not so much as wrong as just unaware - the vortaro hasn't got dachshund, melhundo or vertago in it (well, it has them, just no translations for them yet). Ĝi ne estas la vertago por la difino de vertago rido.gif (Tisn't the day of truth for the definition of vertago)

The following have been added:
- vertago, EO>EN (dachshund)
- melhundo, EO>EN (dachshund)
- vertago and melhundo, EO>EO (Certa hundraso kiu havas mallongajn krurojn kaj longan torson)
- dachshund, EN>EO (vertago (from Latin vertagus), melhundo (badger-dog)).

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年6月23日 7:50:37

Ŝiru_Ĉi_Tie:Of course, there's a place for the compound word vertago to mean the day of truth in Esperanto and it's not likely to be confused in context with "wiener dog" (kolbashundo ??) rido.gif

After all, most languages have these kinds of unrelated double meanings for their words...
Hey, there's always "kolo (neck)" + "baso (bass)" + "hundo", which could be a type of deep-voiced throat singing dog okulumo.gif

Regardu - jen unu eble reala kolbashundo!

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