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If Esperantujo was a place back in the day...

ceigered-tól, 2010. június 15.

Hozzászólások: 8

Nyelv: English

ceigered (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 7:18:36

If Esperantujo was a place way back in the days when the romans were just figuring out that the world existed above the italian alps (ok, so they would have had to have known, but that's not the point), what do you think Esperantujo would be like politically and culturally, what the language would be like (assuming Esperanto was some ancient language like Old Latin or Proto-Germanic), and what do you think Esperantujo would be known as in the English speaking world, and what our perceptions of Esperantians would be?
rido.gif

I'm guessing the country would be very mercantile, and thus quite democratic and multicultural, but with some social engineering ala socialism here and there (a cross between Hong Kong (or Singapore) and Europe). I assume the people would originally have been somewhat european, but increasingly more eastern immigrants as time goes by, more so than say Australia (or the West US coast?). I reckon the language would be split into a cross between different dialects and different formality registers, e.g. older generations and more formal talk would be in a more pure form of Esperanto, where as urban dialects and youth-speak would be very lazy, almost pidgin like (similar to Indonesian) in its nature.

As for English speakers, I assume we'd call the country something like "Sperentvia" (the name an evolution from what the Romans called the country - Sperantuiia), and probably view the country as being a great place to do some cheap holiday shopping due to competitive prices and bartering (probably because everyone's a bit more accepting and family-like). rido.gif

Roberto12 (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 9:48:07

This is one of those questions you can answer in one sentence or in a long essay.

The first thing that popped into my head was the Island-of-Alphas experiment in Brave New World. I think Esperantujo would be a lot like this, sadly. The level of economic activity would be low, and there'd be a lot of committee-style fruitless debating. On the plus side, crime would be minimal, and the people would be generally of high quality.

The country (in the ancient world) would be invaded and controlled by an aggressive neighbour before too long, so even if it had had the capacity to become successful, it wouldn't get the chance.

Miland (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 11:05:53

You might enjoy the book La fenomeno Svislando by Arthur Baur.

Evildela (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 12:28:28

I had have to say if it ever had existed around the time of the Romans, then we’d probably be studding an extinct language right about now, and/or perhaps be reviving it kinda like Hebrew. Then again this really is even more interesting because a lot of Esperanto's roots are Latin based so ... yeah

At least this would clear up one annoying response Esperantist always cop “It has no history or culture behind it” We could then easily reply with “Pf what you on about? French has taken the majority of its root from Esperanto! Just look how many French words are in Esperanto!”

Ironchef (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 14:26:46

Interesting. I have often wondered what Esperantujo would be like if it were a place. I imagine it being somewhere small like San Marino or Liechtenstein but with a loud voice on the international scene; a country desperate for a voice in the larger crowd.

Because Esperanto is a very precise and unambiguous language the culture would probably be very up-front and direct. We have a stereotype of German as being the language of instruction manuals and textbooks and we think of them as having industrial precision. France/Italy tend to be viewed as romantic, laid back with a laissezfaire attitude. Perhaps Esperantujo would be a mixture of these. People would have a dry sense of humor, perhaps not as much wordplay as the English but a more satirical humor. Commerce would be transparent and fair, legal language would be clearer and less open to interpretation.

Place to live? Would be a safe country; low crime rates but maybe oppressive to its citizens (at least in most peoples' views).

Would certainly be a model project to set up a community using only Esperanto and seeing how it develops. (Better than sending astronauts to Mars in a parking lot I suppose)

patrik (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 15:05:05

I would like to compare a would-be Esperantujo to ancient Athens, a place where ideas and beliefs would be debated so often and so could cause conflicts. The Esperantists being a multicultural quasi-community, putting them together in a piece of land can be nice idea because it could prove that E-o can indeed unite peoples, but at the same time, that could be as well a terrible idea because of the possible culture clashes and misunderstandings that could erupt.

And if that Esperantujo goes on to become a modern state, possible points of conflict would be politics, immigration (according to ius sermonis, i. e. if you are a fluent speaker of E-o, you're automatically welcome) and the conflict between belief(s) and non-belief. It's almost certain that Esperantujo would be secular, but what will be its ideology? Would it be Civitanismo? Homaranismo? Sennaciismo? Reading about the conflicts between Zamenhof and Beaufront back then, or between Camacho and Silfer this time, Esperatuja politiko would be so interesting.
lango.gif rido.gif

ceigered (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 15:17:53

Ironchef:perhaps not as much wordplay as the English
I dunno, I reckon there's plenty of words asking for word play (e.g. dieto - a demigod, a food regimen and the Japanese parliament okulumo.gif). Maybe not exactly top notch comedy, buuuuut...
Would certainly be a model project to set up a community using only Esperanto and seeing how it develops. (Better than sending astronauts to Mars in a parking lot I suppose)
Why not combine the two? Send some Esperantists to Mars (erm, maybe about 200 years or so when it's terraformed and all, unless they just happen to be professional astronauts/cosmonauts) lango.gif. At least get them there first though before every man and his dog emigrates to have a new start.

Patrik:It's almost certain that Esperantujo would be secular, but what will be its ideology? Would it be Civitanismo? Homaranismo? Sennaciismo? Reading about the conflicts between Zamenhof and Beaufront back then, or between Camacho and Silfer this time, Esperatuja politiko would be so interesting.
Dear god imagine finvenkismo transplanted into a cultural/national settingmalgajo.gif, it'd be on par with the ideology of the Japanese empire's military of WW2. (Except for the whole bringing peace to the world part!)

And Idism and Raumism would have been interesting, I imagine the setting would be similar to modern China, with Taiwan essentially being Ido, and Raumism supporting a state philosophy that all historically "Esperatian" areas should remain under control of the Esperantian government.

LyzTyphone (Profil megtekintése) 2010. június 15. 20:09:09

I've always wanted to do that, to make an alternative-history kind of prank about how Zamenhof didn't "construct" the language Esperanto but actually just claimed what he found on a few ancient scrolls to himself.

If I were to give Esperantujo a place, I would put it pretty much where Swiss or Austria is... or something like that to justify the three component of Esperanto etymology (Romanic, Germanic, Slavic).

Why would people not know this land? Probably because of a major Damnado Memoria?

I tried to set up a thread for this in "Pri ĉio cetera" section. Maybe we could expand it till it's Wiki-worthy?

Edit: Now I know "La Humuro" is the more proper place to post it...

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