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Језик: English
rjwcim (Погледати профил) 28. јун 2010. 09.57.43
Hello all this is my first post and I'm sorta new I haven't really been active and just started reading these forums. I can read esperanto pretty well, my grammar and speaking skills......need work though lol.
But anyway I'm not sure if this has been brought up so I want to apologize in advance if it had been. I wanted to know if someone could clarify the use of the word per and kun? I know they both mean with but I have seen sentences that I figure would use kun but instead they use per? could someone please help me on this and maybe show sentences with their use?
My second question was, I was curious to know if there are any esperantists that also play the MMORPG called World of Warcraft. If so I would love to make a character on your server and chit chat. I play fairly often and think that would be a great way to expand my skills if I knew anyone who speaks it.
Actually if anyone plays any online game by blizzard they just implemented this new feature that allows you to add people on your friends list using their battle.net e-mail and this will allow you to speak with them regardless of what game, server, or faction they are on. You can even make a party chat if you have multiple friends added.
Alright I think I blabbed on enough but thanks in advance.
Ĝis la!
But anyway I'm not sure if this has been brought up so I want to apologize in advance if it had been. I wanted to know if someone could clarify the use of the word per and kun? I know they both mean with but I have seen sentences that I figure would use kun but instead they use per? could someone please help me on this and maybe show sentences with their use?
My second question was, I was curious to know if there are any esperantists that also play the MMORPG called World of Warcraft. If so I would love to make a character on your server and chit chat. I play fairly often and think that would be a great way to expand my skills if I knew anyone who speaks it.
Actually if anyone plays any online game by blizzard they just implemented this new feature that allows you to add people on your friends list using their battle.net e-mail and this will allow you to speak with them regardless of what game, server, or faction they are on. You can even make a party chat if you have multiple friends added.
Alright I think I blabbed on enough but thanks in advance.
Ĝis la!
johmue (Погледати профил) 28. јун 2010. 10.09.05
rjwcim:I wanted to know if someone could clarify the use of the word per and kun?Use "per" if you want to indicate a tool that's used for the action you are talking about. In other cases use kun.
Example:
They saw the girl with the binoculars.
Ili vidis la knabinon per la binoklo.
Means: They looked through (used) the binoculars and saw the girl.
Ili vidis la knabinon kun la binoklo.
Means: They saw the girl who had the binoculars.
Johannes
ceigered (Погледати профил) 28. јун 2010. 10.22.40
For WoW = http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=4...
For per/kun:
per is instrumental (see 3. (grammar)), and is used to show how something is used to complete an action (e.g. used as an instrument).
Kun simply means something was with the things mentioned in the sentence at the time.
Examples:
Mi bakis kukon per forno. I baked a cake with an oven.
Mi ludas kun miaj amikoj. I play with my friends.
Mi faris kukon kun farunosukero. I made a cake with icing sugar (e.g., it has icing sugar with it - note also that I don't know how to say icing sugar so I used "flour sugar"
)
But then there are occaisions where meanings are either fuzzy because it's hard to tell whether per or kun is better, or simply because we're lazy and think "kun" is just easier, e.g.:
Mi ludas kun WoW - I play with WoW.
Mi ludas WoW-n - I play WoW
Mi ludas per Wow kun miaj amikoj - I play with WoW with my friends.
In this case, per is generally better than kun, but you'll still likely find people doing either one (and sometimes there is a place for both, especially if the game is highly interactive and might as well be counted as a personality of its own rather than just a tool for amusement - a social game like WoW isn't a good example, but if you really anthropomorphised a 20 questions game then "kun" could work quite happily there).
For per/kun:
per is instrumental (see 3. (grammar)), and is used to show how something is used to complete an action (e.g. used as an instrument).
Kun simply means something was with the things mentioned in the sentence at the time.
Examples:
Mi bakis kukon per forno. I baked a cake with an oven.
Mi ludas kun miaj amikoj. I play with my friends.
Mi faris kukon kun farunosukero. I made a cake with icing sugar (e.g., it has icing sugar with it - note also that I don't know how to say icing sugar so I used "flour sugar"
)But then there are occaisions where meanings are either fuzzy because it's hard to tell whether per or kun is better, or simply because we're lazy and think "kun" is just easier, e.g.:
Mi ludas kun WoW - I play with WoW.
Mi ludas WoW-n - I play WoW
Mi ludas per Wow kun miaj amikoj - I play with WoW with my friends.
In this case, per is generally better than kun, but you'll still likely find people doing either one (and sometimes there is a place for both, especially if the game is highly interactive and might as well be counted as a personality of its own rather than just a tool for amusement - a social game like WoW isn't a good example, but if you really anthropomorphised a 20 questions game then "kun" could work quite happily there).