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How to say "some people"

de Seth442, 17 iulie 2010

Contribuții/Mesaje: 9

Limbă: English

Seth442 (Arată profil) 17 iulie 2010, 22:43:07

In english saying "some people" means something along the lines of "at least a few people, but probably not very many"

I don't understand if I should use "iom da homoj" (some quantity of people) or "iuj da homoj"?
Also, what about "kelkaj da homoj"?

Also, how would I say "he does not have any friends"?
I can say "li ne havas amikoj" but is there some useful analog to "any" in this case?

Frankouche (Arată profil) 17 iulie 2010, 22:56:35

I don't see "homoj" as a quantity like water, apple, non alive things. So i would say : kelkaj homoj, iuj homoj, homoj.

"he does not have any friends", i'd say : li havas neniun amikon.

horsto (Arată profil) 17 iulie 2010, 23:28:42

Frankouche is right, I also don't know why so many people say things like: "kelkaj da homoj" or "mi ne havas multe da tempo" instead of the more simple: "kelkaj homoj" and "mi ne havas multan tempon".
for "he does not have any friends" I would say: "li ne havas iun ajn amikon".

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 18 iulie 2010, 04:19:54

"Multe da" = "multaj"; they are just alternative ways of saying the same thing.

"Some people" can be expressed simply by "iuj".

tommjames (Arată profil) 18 iulie 2010, 11:36:33

RiotNrrd:"Multe da" = "multaj"; they are just alternative ways of saying the same thing.
According to Zamenhof there is a small difference. In the Lingvaj Respondoj he wrote as follows:

Zamenhof, Esperantisto, 1893, p. 96:Estas diferenco inter “multaj homoj” kaj “multe da homoj”: “multaj homoj” = diversaj homoj (ĉiu aparte); “multe da homoj” = granda nombro da homoj (kune).
Whether this is something people pay much attention to these days I don't know. I myself prefer to use "multe da" and "multaj" accordingly. For example if I was just talking about a large number of people in the general sense I might say "multaj homoj pensas ke..", but if I was pointing out a crowd of people standing together I would say "jen multe da homoj". Of course either form is probably acceptable for either case, but I prefer to conserve the nuance as much as possible.

Chainy (Arată profil) 18 iulie 2010, 11:48:36

tommjames:I myself prefer to use "multe da" and "multaj" accordingly. For example if I was just talking about a large number of people in the general sense I might say "multaj homoj pensas ke..", but if I was pointing out a crowd of people standing together I would say "jen multe da homoj". Of course either form is probably acceptable for either case, but I prefer to conserve the nuance as much as possible.
That's an interesting point. I hadn't really thought of this before - although, now that you've explained it, I like the differentiation you make.

Chainy (Arată profil) 18 iulie 2010, 12:02:37

Seth442:In english saying "some people" means something along the lines of "at least a few people, but probably not very many"

I don't understand if I should use "iom da homoj" (some quantity of people) or "iuj da homoj"?
Also, what about "kelkaj da homoj"?

Also, how would I say "he does not have any friends"?
I can say "li ne havas amikoj" but is there some useful analog to "any" in this case?
You can say 'kelkaj homoj' (some people), or as has been pointed out, you can simply say 'kelkaj' in this situation. Eg.

"Kelkaj pensas, ke tio estus bona ideo" - Some [people] think that would be a good idea.

You can also use 'multaj' to mean 'many people'.

It's not possible at all to say 'kelkaj da'!! (this is completely wrong). You can only say 'kelke da' as an alternative to 'kelkaj' - in the same way as 'multaj' is an alternative to 'multe da' (although, you should bear in mind what Tommjames says about this above)

In fact, I've just found the PMEG page which supports what Tommjames says: "kelkaj" or "kelke da"(see the final section at the bottom of the page)

Chainy (Arată profil) 18 iulie 2010, 19:39:17

Seth442:Also, how would I say "he does not have any friends"?
I can say "li ne havas amikoj" but is there some useful analog to "any" in this case?
This has got me thinking... Surely, we can simply say 'Li ne havas amikojn' and that means 'He doesn't have any friends'. There's no need to say 'any' in such a sentence in Esperanto. The use of 'any' here is perhaps a peculiarity to English...

Or an alternative would be 'Li havas neniujn amikojn' (something along the lines of 'he has no friends')

I've been trying to find examples similar to the suggestion of 'Li ne havas iujn ajn amikojn', but without much success. I'm not entirely sure of the point of saying 'iujn ajn' in such a sentence, or whether it even makes any sense...

There's no example of such usage on the PMEG page for ajn

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 18 iulie 2010, 21:39:10

tommjames:
RiotNrrd:"Multe da" = "multaj"; they are just alternative ways of saying the same thing.
According to Zamenhof there is a small difference. In the Lingvaj Respondoj he wrote as follows...
You are right. I was oversimplifying a bit. Upon reflection, the way you describe is the way I do use them, although often the difference is so subtle that it's almost splitting hairs as to which to pick. In many cases you can use either one without (I think) appreciably changing the meaning of the sentence.

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