K vsebini

Am I right in thinking this?

od Lynchie, 29. julij 2010

Sporočila: 19

Jezik: English

Frankouche (Prikaži profil) 29. julij 2010 15:47:31

I have tried both solutions :

I learned old hieroglyphic egyptian in books and tried to speak like a pharaoh in front of my mirror. rideto.gif
I can read, i can't speak. malgajo.gif (except "son of sun", "master of...")

I'm learning lebanese arabic with speakers. There are no books, no dictionnaries, no grammar books. That's hard !
But i can speak and read (like a child). I've learned reading with commercial posters and license plates for numbers. okulumo.gif

erinja (Prikaži profil) 29. julij 2010 15:52:15

If you are not a big fan of learning grammatical rules, I recommend the courses "Bildoj kaj demandoj" and "La puzlo Esperanto". Those are much more centered around showing how things work, rather than offering explanations.

I think that as far as learning as an adult is concerned, seeing patterns in things and learning through using the language is excellent. BUT sometimes the pattern behind when to use or not to use a certain bit of grammar is not obvious, and a logical rule can help you a lot. The knowledge of a rule can be the difference between speaking average Esperanto and speaking a really excellent Esperanto. I think that at a certain point you hit a wall, and that these rules can give you the extra boost you need to get over that wall. Little kids learn without these rules, but we adults need a little more help. The fact is that we don't learn the same way that little kids do, because our brains are not structured the same way.

No one wants to be the "fluent" speaker who speaks with fluent bad grammar. Or at least, I don't want to be.

So yes, if you get frustrated/bored over memorization of grammatical rules, start out with courses (like Bildoj kaj demandoj) that are based on understanding of simple sentence and building up your knowledge without lists of rules and vocabulary. But after that, I think it's beneficial to go to something like Ana Pana, which offers grammatical explanations, and also a tutor who can identify your specific weaknesses and give you explanations to help you avoid the mistakes that you commonly make.

Lynchie (Prikaži profil) 29. julij 2010 21:55:27

Thank you all so much for your advice, since I am primarily learning on my own at the moment from the courses, can anyone give me any suggestions of what you would say are the most important things to learn first? Does the grammatical side of language learning come first, or would you say lots of vocabulary is a good idea to start with? I do actually find reading the language reasonably easy, and also the sounds of the words in my head seem to come quite well(although goodness knows why I speak it with a very cheesy Italian accent I don't know!), but, as was said earlier, it's composing sentence from scratch that I think will take the most time to master. Thank you all again for your wonderful advice, it is all most definitely appreciated ridulo.gif

erinja (Prikaži profil) 30. julij 2010 02:40:17

No need to over-analyze this.

Pick out a course and start working through it. If you feel like you keep getting the grammar wrong, study more grammar. If you have trouble understanding the vocabulary, study more vocabulary. No need to decide in advance whether to focus on grammar or vocabulary; I think your natural needs will tell you this.

Lynchie (Prikaži profil) 30. julij 2010 02:59:47

That sounds like very good advice too. I do have a tendency to want to be brilliant at something the moment I start it, rarely happens. I think I will do as you suggest, picking up little bits here and there, looking at the dictionary for different words, and trying out short sentences to begin with in the forum, maybe.
To that end, could anyone please tell me if I have translated this correctly?
Mi havas tre malbona kapdoloron-I have a terrible headache.
Thanks, now to take some pills for it lol.

Chainy (Prikaži profil) 30. julij 2010 06:23:07

It's definitely worth going through the grammar exercises in Esperanto. Especially things like the suffixes and the ways in which the verbs can be changed to cover the different tenses etc. The great thing about learning the 'suffixes' is that they enable you to build various words and meanings from the root words, so by learning them you are also increasing your vocabulary.

manĝ/i = to eat. And from this root word you can create the following words:

Manĝ/u! = Eat! (imperative)
manĝ/o = a meal
manĝ/o/hor/o = mealtime
manĝ/et/i = to nibble, to have a little snack
manĝ/eg/i = to gorge, to have a heavy meal
manĝ/ebl/a = edible
manĝ/ebl/ec/o = edibility (quality of being edible)
manĝ/ind/a = worth eating
manĝ/aĉ/o = a disgusting meal
manĝ/aĵ/o = food
manĝ/ej/o = an eating place, dining room
manĝ/ig/i = to cause to eat, to feed
manĝ/uj/o = manger
manĝ/il/ar/o = cutlery
manĝ/ant/e = while eating.
vesper/manĝ/o = evening meal
ek/manĝ/i = to start eating
for/manĝ/i = to eat up

Etc.... (the above list was taken from the JC Wells dictionary).

So, it's really cool to learn how all these suffixes etc effect the basic root words. Ok, maybe some people can pick this up in some kind of natural way, but I reckon it's much more effective to force yourself to go through a stack of exercises so that you can quickly get down to the real meanings, rather than constantly trying to guess! It's worth the effort, because then you'll start to understand loads of words, even though you've just learnt one 'root word' such as 'manĝ/i'. That's the really powerful aspect to Esperanto and it really encourages you a lot.

erinja (Prikaži profil) 30. julij 2010 15:10:40

Chainy is right but if you go through a course, it will naturally lead you to various grammar exercises to help you learn the concepts. I would at least get my feet wet with a course before worrying about delving into individual points of grammar. Courses teach something in a specific order for a reason, and I think it makes it easier to learn things with a context, rather than simply working through all of the grammar exercises.

Miland (Prikaži profil) 30. julij 2010 16:57:41

Lynchie:I do have a tendency to want to be brilliant at something the moment I start it, rarely happens
It's good that you see the need for a little patience. The grammar is really for reference. Except for looking specific things up, I would leave it till you've finished the courses Ana Pana and Ana Renkontas.

Lynchie (Prikaži profil) 30. julij 2010 23:08:09

Thanks again for the advice ridulo.gif I really appreciate everyone's help with my new studies which I am absolutely loving. I will certainly give those courses a look, and I am thoroughly enjoying my studies and speaking to those who have messaged me on the website.

Nazaj na začetek