RiotNrrd:Esperanto has been in use for over a century, and yet is mostly slang-free. There's a reason for that.

Which one?

- Walling-off the Malesperantujo?
- Everything working for XXX years will work in future, too?
...

It's mostly slang-free because most Esperantists prefer to speak in a way that can be easily understood by others, rather than trying to be 'cool' by using words that no one can understand.

Slang, by definition, is specific vocabulary used by a particular group, non-standard vocabulary, unusual new words. All of these features make it hard for beginner to understand, and are detrimental to understanding one another within the Esperanto community.

It has nothing to do with walling yourself off from the world outside of Esperanto. Of course if there is a concept outside of Esperanto, we should find a way to express that concept. This has nothing to do with closing Esperanto off from exposure to outside ideas. But that isn't slang; we should try to choose a native Esperanto word to express the concept, so that all Esperanto speakers can understand what we're talking about.

qwertz:Which one?

- Walling-off the Malesperantujo?
- Everything working for XXX years will work in future, too?
...

The one you left out.

Slang is divisive. It splits the world into two groups - the cool in-the-know ones, and everyone else. It is antithetical to the idea of free and open communication between people because it purposely obscures it. Slang is therefore contrary to the entire reason FOR Esperanto.

As Erinja points out, new words and slang are not the same beast at all. New words generally describe new things. Slang is just new words for old things. In Esperantujo, people tend to be resistant to the addition of words that don't add any new value (i.e., if a concept is already covered by a word, then it is preferable to use that word instead of a new one[1]).

"Mojosa" is an interesting case, in that there is no pre-existing Esperanto word that really covers the meaning of "cool" that is meant by it. Personally, I think we DO need a word for "cool" that conveys the English idiomatic meaning; I just don't think "mojosa" should be that word (although I don't have an alternative suggestion at the moment[2]). But this is not a case of creating slang. This is a case of creating a new word for a distinct concept that isn't already covered by another word.

"Slu", "sal", and whatnot, are just covering ground already taken up by "saluton". They are slightly more convenient to say (by two whole syllables - whoo![3]), and add nothing else.

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[1] Certainly this hasn't held true in every case, and thus we have words with synonyms. But past mistakes don't compel future ones.

[2] And the longer "mojosa" hangs around, the higher the probability that it will continue to hang around and become THE word for it. That's cool, I guess.

[3] Words that come up a LOT should be short. But how often does one need to greet someone during a typical conversation? Once? Twice? The extra syllables in "saluton" don't cost much; go to town with them, I say.

RiotNrrd:
"Mojosa" is an interesting case, in that there is no pre-existing Esperanto word that really covers the meaning of "cool" that is meant by it.

What about malaĉa?

While we're on the topic of how Esperanto's vocab works and why so, I really, really love and yet hate with a passion the mal- suffix. It's dirt easy, but for my mind it's just so strange and illogical at times (e.g. the good ol' right vs. unright, good vs ungood, satisfied vs. unsatisfied (hungry). Some of them are good comparisons, but others just make me wonder if Zamenhoff had a crook neck and always looked to the right).

Now, that gripe is unrelated and not really arguable due to the way the language works, so no reason to argue against me or justify the system because it's got me caught in its fiery talons , but I believe the idea of avoiding "exclusive" words may be fundamentally not very human. Which of course is OK - Esperanto works well due to a relatively positive lack of unecessary words. But I think discouraging slang and new words as a whole is supressing the reason languages exist in so many forms today - due to our humanity, and willingness to keep moving forward (or in any direction, as long as we're moving and alive). So I'd argue slang does have its place in a healthy language. But as a guideline I'd say:

If you've never talked to the person before and have no idea of their tastes and can't decide if they'd know certain words or stuff, avoid those words altogether unless they're essential. By extension, this involves never assuming what you know is known by them. Then, after talking to them, you can figure out what you have in common linguistically and capitalise that. If they use slang and you use slang, use it. If others wanna join the conversation (and you want them to), assimilate them into your little environment of slang words.

And I think that's a pretty good base for all interpersonal communication outside of EO too, if not transcending preexisting spoken and written language entirely. Avoidance of slang is a bandaid solution (not necessarily a bad one, but it doesn't address the actual problem) slapped on a lack of communication skills people have, particularly to do with creativity and the ability to adapt to new conversations or exchanges of information effectively. And sure, slang may bring division, but we as humans need to be able to divide and unite and categorise and abstract ourselves and concepts flexibly in order for us to be good thinkers and communicators I reckon. At least this is what I strive for, for myself.

As for learners however, as I've learnt the hard way: if you're learning to speak the language so you can speak to other people, learn what the speakers of the said language actually do speak, so of course in EO's case, learn what you'll actually be reciprocatively using

There's my 5c AUD with the little echidna rolled up on it anyway

The big problem with slang is that it intentionally excludes people, and why would we want to do that in Esperanto?

To me, the best Esperanto slang is the slang that can be understood by any Esperanto speaker, but which also expresses ideas in a fun and interesting way.

This would be words like "malaĉa" to mean "cool" (alternate words for "cool" - beluma, brila, bonuma), words like "maltrinki" instead of "urini", referring to beginners as "fresxbakitaj esperantistoj", etc. You can speak in a fun and colloquial way, and still be understood by everyone. No need to stay in the past, but no need to be unnecessarily complicated and to exclude older people, either.

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On mal- - it isn't good/ungood, it's good/opposite of good, dry/opposite of dry, etc.

We maintain a difference in meaning between, for example, malseka (wet) and neseka (not dry), malbona (bad) and nebona (not good), malsata (hungry) and nesata (not full).

erinja:On mal- - it isn't good/ungood, it's good/opposite of good, dry/opposite of dry, etc.

We maintain a difference in meaning between, for example, malseka (wet) and neseka (not dry), malbona (bad) and nebona (not good), malsata (hungry) and nesata (not full).

Indeed, sorry for my misleading words, I knew that but just tried to put it in the most natural sounding English equivalent so the newspeak style "double plus ungood" came to mind ("opposite of" doesn't make for a very tidy prefix ).

I guess one of the better examples is "maldekstra" vs. "nedekstra", as here "nedekstra" (anywhere but right) is more easily removable in meaning from "maldekstra" (left) (where as nebona is often associated quite strongly with malbona for some I guess, since we humans have a tendency to think in terms of "if it's not good enough to be good then it's bad").

erinja:beluma, brila, bonuma

I don't think that beluma and bonuma are really readily understandable. The suffix -um has many uses and you mostly have to guess what a word with this prefix means. I don't think that this is easy in this case.

I actually use malaĉa (also malino for "a male person" since Esperanto lacks such a word: viro doesn't include children) seriously, not just as a word play.

erinja:
Slang, by definition, is specific vocabulary used by a particular group, non-standard vocabulary, unusual new words. All of these features make it hard for beginner to understand, and are detrimental to understanding one another within the Esperanto community.

Hhm, we will see, how Esperanto Hiphopo will developing. In my opinion Slang also can make something attractive. Thats the same like the fascination of a foreign language.

Vinilkosmo prepares a new Esperanto Hiphopo kompilo. Especially I'm very interested in the result of that instant rhyming (Freestyle/Tujrimado). Reala tujrimado isn't prepared before. There are techniques to ensure that. Will that hiphopuloj push out slang or well-defined E-o? I believe it will be more well-defined E-o because E-o by itselves still offers possiblities to "kameleoni la vortoj". But the time will show.

erinja:
It has nothing to do with walling yourself off from the world outside of Esperanto. Of course if there is a concept outside of Esperanto, we should find a way to express that concept. This has nothing to do with closing Esperanto off from exposure to outside ideas. But that isn't slang; we should try to choose a native Esperanto word to express the concept, so that all Esperanto speakers can understand what we're talking about.

I really like that habbit to discuss e-o words for excisting concepts very much. Probably I don't understand the idea behind "Slang". At the German wikipedia Slang points to Umgangssprache = "All-day-language".

Regarding "Slu Somebodies_Given_Name". I first red the term "collegial" at a German-English dictionary and I agree "Slu" was intended to be collegial with E-o "background". Okay, I will never encounter the situation to hear "Slu" the first time. So I'm probably emotionaly to near that "Slu". But I can imagine shouting "Slu" accross the street to greet somebody overthere. I even can imagine that for "Saluton". But for me "Saluton" sounds not very handy, at least not "collegial".

RiotNrrd:

qwertz:Which one?

- Walling-off the Malesperantujo?
- Everything working for XXX years will work in future, too?
...

The one you left out.

Slang is divisive. It splits the world into two groups - the cool in-the-know ones, and everyone else. It is antithetical to the idea of free and open communication between people because it purposely obscures it. Slang is therefore contrary to the entire reason FOR Esperanto.

I still have to make some research to find out what Slang excactly means.