Mesaĝoj: 74
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erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-04 00:17:50
I've written here before to advertise NASK, the North American Summer Esperanto Courses. Attendance at NASK has been declining for some years, and it likely has something to do with the fact that people don't have much money or much vacation time, and NASK traditionally lasts three weeks. The organizers of NASK are planning to change the format of the course to increase attendance, and I want to get some input, both from US-based and non-US-based students.
- Timing; is three weeks too much? What about a week and a half, versus one week, would that extra half-week make it a non-starter for you?
- Location; it's currently held in San Diego, but it was held in Vermont for a few years, in an attempt to get more European participants. That didn't seem to work, and holding it in California didn't seem to increase the number of Asians. Would you attend regardless of where it was, or does the location matter a lot to you? (I'm particularly thinking of those outside the continental US here) What if it were somewhere in the midwest, like Chicago?
- What is the right balance of excursions and courses? For those of you who have attended SES, SES is pretty heavy on excursions. NASK has traditionally been more classroom-based, with excursions spaced out over the three weeks. Would you prefer that there be more time for learning (like in traditional NASK) or more time given to excursions (like SES), but possibly with less improvement in your Esperanto ability over the week?
I'm particularly interested in hearing from people who have wanted to attend NASK in the past, but haven't for one reason or another. What were the main factors that stopped you? Cost? Time commitment? Distance? Program didn't look fun?
I'm looking to start a useful discussion here, and I'm going to be reporting back to the NASK organizational committee on what people think, so I hope you'll all chime in with your opinions.
- Timing; is three weeks too much? What about a week and a half, versus one week, would that extra half-week make it a non-starter for you?
- Location; it's currently held in San Diego, but it was held in Vermont for a few years, in an attempt to get more European participants. That didn't seem to work, and holding it in California didn't seem to increase the number of Asians. Would you attend regardless of where it was, or does the location matter a lot to you? (I'm particularly thinking of those outside the continental US here) What if it were somewhere in the midwest, like Chicago?
- What is the right balance of excursions and courses? For those of you who have attended SES, SES is pretty heavy on excursions. NASK has traditionally been more classroom-based, with excursions spaced out over the three weeks. Would you prefer that there be more time for learning (like in traditional NASK) or more time given to excursions (like SES), but possibly with less improvement in your Esperanto ability over the week?
I'm particularly interested in hearing from people who have wanted to attend NASK in the past, but haven't for one reason or another. What were the main factors that stopped you? Cost? Time commitment? Distance? Program didn't look fun?
I'm looking to start a useful discussion here, and I'm going to be reporting back to the NASK organizational committee on what people think, so I hope you'll all chime in with your opinions.
biguglydave (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-04 02:39:07
This is my first year in Esperantujo, so I can't give you an historical perspective. I also realize that I'm not part of the demographic that Esperanto generally targets. However, a comment is a comment. Here I go...
The three-week duration is the primary show-stopper for me. I would consider a week and a half, but as an adult working outside of academia, summer is my busy season and I'm less flexible then. This leaves me with the primary constraints of: NOT SUMMER, or 2-5 days maximum at a time, and we haven't talked about money yet because time and timing are the real issues.
An alternative format to NASK follows that would work for me. I would be very willing to vojaĝi several times ĉiujare to a central US location for an Esperanto "weekend", or mini-congress or mini-NASK, of 2 to 5 days duration. Pack the excursions (not a priority), instruction (the priority) and meals (is there a convenience store nearby) into 18-hour days and let the good times roll. Where do I send my check?
The three-week duration is the primary show-stopper for me. I would consider a week and a half, but as an adult working outside of academia, summer is my busy season and I'm less flexible then. This leaves me with the primary constraints of: NOT SUMMER, or 2-5 days maximum at a time, and we haven't talked about money yet because time and timing are the real issues.
An alternative format to NASK follows that would work for me. I would be very willing to vojaĝi several times ĉiujare to a central US location for an Esperanto "weekend", or mini-congress or mini-NASK, of 2 to 5 days duration. Pack the excursions (not a priority), instruction (the priority) and meals (is there a convenience store nearby) into 18-hour days and let the good times roll. Where do I send my check?
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-04 06:17:33
I'm kinda with biguglydave on this one. NASK is just too long. I work a regular job, and simply can't take three solid weeks off at a time, at any time of year. That schedule is for kids and retirees.
For working adults, a week would probably be doable-but-pushing-it. A three day weekend, or even several widely-spaced three day weekends, would be more doable. Something on the west coast would be (for me) even more doable - east coast events are a nonstarter for me.
For working adults, a week would probably be doable-but-pushing-it. A three day weekend, or even several widely-spaced three day weekends, would be more doable. Something on the west coast would be (for me) even more doable - east coast events are a nonstarter for me.
jaldrich (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-04 16:07:37
I attended NASK for the first time this summer, and it was awesome. Let me offer a different perspective on the length of the program: it DID prevent me from going in previous years, but shortening it to one week or less would have prevented me from going at all - the travel (I'm on the East coast) and lodging expenses aren't worth it for a too-short course, plus it would likely lose the ability to be accredited by a university - making it less prestigious as a "real" course worthy of spending money on.
I like the idea of weekend courses in several locations, but that's obviously a different set of issues with cost and organization.
I like the idea of weekend courses in several locations, but that's obviously a different set of issues with cost and organization.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-05 11:47:42
Perhaps if finance and organisational potential are in surplus, there can be a shorter variant of the NASK course that doesn't go as long as the normal, university-accredited version (being a university student I can understand how even if you have a few free days in the week, university can still somehow control how you spend your time (and money) regardless, so any bit of it that gets used majorly is often preferred as being as useful or worthwhile as possible).
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-06 00:08:49
There is a discussion ongoing about offering credit, actually; there is talk that the credit could be optional, or that credit would possibly not be given. It isn't clear how many people find the aspect of university credit to be important; does anyone want to comment on that?
If I calculated right, the cost of the course as it has been in the past runs at about $140 per day; that would make the cost around $1000 for a week-long course, making the (big) assumption that the per-day cost would remain roughly the same. Do you feel that this price is too much? Can anyone comment on how much money they would be willing to pay for a one-week Esperanto course?
I want to address RiotNrrd's comment on east coast vs. west coast; would you be willing to attend something in a place like Chicago, or do you think that it might as well be east coast, for the distance?
On the "demographics" of Esperanto - I would find it hard to say that ANYONE falls outside the demographics of Esperanto. lernu.net is a very youth-oriented site, so it might give you the impression that Esperanto as a whole is very youth-oriented. This isn't actually the case, and most Esperanto events have many more retirees than youths.
Not to say that it's only for old people, but the people who have the free time and lack of commitments, who can afford to devote their time to Esperanto (and not to raising their kids and working at their full-time job) tend to be students and retirees.
If I calculated right, the cost of the course as it has been in the past runs at about $140 per day; that would make the cost around $1000 for a week-long course, making the (big) assumption that the per-day cost would remain roughly the same. Do you feel that this price is too much? Can anyone comment on how much money they would be willing to pay for a one-week Esperanto course?
I want to address RiotNrrd's comment on east coast vs. west coast; would you be willing to attend something in a place like Chicago, or do you think that it might as well be east coast, for the distance?
On the "demographics" of Esperanto - I would find it hard to say that ANYONE falls outside the demographics of Esperanto. lernu.net is a very youth-oriented site, so it might give you the impression that Esperanto as a whole is very youth-oriented. This isn't actually the case, and most Esperanto events have many more retirees than youths.
Not to say that it's only for old people, but the people who have the free time and lack of commitments, who can afford to devote their time to Esperanto (and not to raising their kids and working at their full-time job) tend to be students and retirees.
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-06 01:45:00
From a practical standpoint, Chicago may as well be NYC or Atlanta. It's a little closer, but the travel is going to eat up most of a day each way regardless. And it isn't really much cheaper.
I may not be representative, though. I rarely ever travel, so no part of my life is geared in that direction, making travel a Big Deal to me where it might not be for someone who travels regularly.
But... from Portland (where I am), I can make Seattle in less than an hour, SF in an hour and a half, SoCal in two or three. Whereas I've made trips to the east coast that have exceeded ten hours in travel time. That's a HUGE difference. At least, to me.
And that's not even talking about the cost, which can be pretty steep for a cross-country flight. Flights sticking to the west coast tend to be much less expensive.
I may not be representative, though. I rarely ever travel, so no part of my life is geared in that direction, making travel a Big Deal to me where it might not be for someone who travels regularly.
But... from Portland (where I am), I can make Seattle in less than an hour, SF in an hour and a half, SoCal in two or three. Whereas I've made trips to the east coast that have exceeded ten hours in travel time. That's a HUGE difference. At least, to me.
And that's not even talking about the cost, which can be pretty steep for a cross-country flight. Flights sticking to the west coast tend to be much less expensive.
zixhwizs (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-06 21:04:46
Timing has been the issue that has prevented me from attending NASK in the past (and why I attended SES in 2008). I can arrange a week off without issue at work, and probably a week and a half given sufficient notice. Two weeks would be pushing my luck, but three weeks solid just isn't doable. If NASK weren't quite so long, I would love to attend.
Excursions are nice-to-have, but wouldn't affect whether I attend or not in any way. If the location has something truly noteworthy, an excursion would be nice, and could also be a great location to learn (for instance, Esperanto words for various animals at the famed San Diego zoo). For myself, the excursions at SES were fun (I saw my first castle!), but I found the learn-until-your-brain-bleeds classroom instruction in the mornings and practice-what-you-learned afternoon chats were more useful for learning than the excursions.
Excursions are nice-to-have, but wouldn't affect whether I attend or not in any way. If the location has something truly noteworthy, an excursion would be nice, and could also be a great location to learn (for instance, Esperanto words for various animals at the famed San Diego zoo). For myself, the excursions at SES were fun (I saw my first castle!), but I found the learn-until-your-brain-bleeds classroom instruction in the mornings and practice-what-you-learned afternoon chats were more useful for learning than the excursions.
biguglydave (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-06 22:20:27
erinja:1) I appreciate the comeback on demographics, however I fully understand the movement's focus on youth. I made my comment because I saw your post right after you made it and was waiting for a flood of "youthful" responses before I jumped into the discussion.
1) I would find it hard to say that ANYONE falls outside the demographics of Esperanto.
2) It isn't clear how many people find the aspect of university credit to be important...
3) Can anyone comment on how much money they would be willing to pay for a one-week Esperanto course?
4) something in a place like Chicago, or do you think that it might as well be east coast...
2) College credit holds little interest for me. If its necessary to attract a critical mass of attendees, and it adds cost, it would be great to offer a "no credit" discount.
3) By limiting the seminar to a week, you've eliminated my chief show-stopper. Beyond that, I could do $2,500 total for the week; $1,250 for the seminar and another $1,250 for the travel, lodging, etc. Shift those costs around anyway you want. Exceed them by too much and Esperanto goes beyond being the "ŝatokupo" that I intended.
4) I like Chicago and would attend there. My personal experience is that significantly lower travel and lodging costs occur farther south, but still relatively central; e.g. Texas - Saluton, y'all!.
Finally, thanks for your efforts on this. Large enterprises spend billions every year for market research to determine price points. You're making some really big decisions with relatively little input.
Simioenlaurbo (Montri la profilon) 2010-aŭgusto-06 22:41:01
Hmm...I’ll throw my two cents in to add to the range of responses. I’ve considered going in the past, and unlike most who’ve posted so far, time wasn’t a big deal for me...but the price was. IMHO, it’s really expensive. I also understand where people are coming from with having a hard time taking vacation from work and wanting shorter events, but for me personally, I prefer longer events (week-long or more) - especially if I have to travel all the way to the Left Coast 