I think that certain people try to push Esperanto into being as slangy as their native languages, so they go to great effort to make up new slang words.

I think this is a bad idea because it hampers communication. Slang has a tendency to develop naturally when groups of people are friends, but simply making up new words and using them, in some kind of attempt to be "modern and cool", makes you hard to understand.

I have to say that the Esperanto spoken by the Esperanto "cool kids" at youth conventions barely differs at all from the Esperanto spoken by retirees -- and the differences are not what you think they are (one example - younger people tend to use "komputilo" for a computer, certain older people who don't make much use of technology tend not to realize that "komputilo" is the widely accepted word, and to use the old word "komputero", which never made it into wide use). I suggest actually learning the language to the point of fluency before you try to make up all kinds of new slang words.

I tend to agree with lavagulo. When in doubt, you should err on the side of using the word that everyone will understand, rather than using some weird slang that only you and your ten friends know. When you are alone with your ten friends, you can use whatever words you want, but out in public (like in these public forums), why not speak in a way that everyone can understand?

ceigered:

lavagulo:I was informed that it meant the same as "sal" by the "cool" minority and was to be used as a substitute for "saluton," since that three-syllable word was judged too long to use.

As a semi-user of slu, I am sorry to hear that such an impression has been given that it is an elitist sort of thing to use "slu" - this is not the case, it's more a greeting between mates, to be chilled.

I fully agree to that. It's intended beeing a "greeting between mates, to be chilled."

I visited two e-o meetings (IS 2008 in Biedenkopf/Germany, JES 2009 in Zakopane/Poland) and it didn't encounter to me that someone did greet me three peg "Sa-lu-ton". In my opinion "Sa-lu-ton" sounds denying. Something I definitivly not want to express to other people at a e-o meeting. As a beginner I tried it one time and got no answer. Sa-lu-ton just produced a communication wall. Tool!/Great!

Mostly other people instantly came to topic or ask for my name and where I'm from. On stage speaker started with "karaj"(mostly) "homoj"(seldom) and not "Sa-lu-ton". That's what I experienced. If somebody has other experiences, then it's fine for them. I also don't understand that "Slu is Slang" disscussion. In my opinion it doesn't need lots of phantasy to find out what "Slu" means if I great somebody who didn't hear "Slu" before. And I also don't understand why some people think that "Slu" will trigger a "Slang avalanche" which could cause erosion of E-o.

Just a Karaj excample. 1:19min (Rolf from the British Esperanto Youth)

ceigered:

lavagulo:If readers on this forum encounter a strange word, cannot find it in any dictionary, and have to ask on this forum for the definition of the strange word, then that is a sure indication that the word is simply a figment of someone's imagination.

Haha, well, that's actually what Slu is - it's not meant to be SERIOUS - well, it can be, but I doubt Qwertz would like to see it become a controversy (although if you do qwertz then feel free to correct me ).

It's meant such serious as Sal'. Using of Sal' has a reason for some persons and Slu, too. Until now I only encounter Sal' in written from. Due to the missing vocal at the end in my opinion Sal' isn't quite proper for spoken use. Thats the gap Slu could fill up for spoken use. It's on you: Use it or ignore it. I will use it.

Regarding Slu. Somebody really interested in this could follow this thread.

erinja:I think that certain people try to push Esperanto into being as slangy as their native languages, so they go to great effort to make up new slang words.

In my case. Hochdeutsch (standardized German) definitivly isn't slangy. I prefer to speak Hochdeutsch and not any dialect and a make lot of efforts to save my Hochdeutsch skills. Maybe I still not can feel that for Esperanto.

Esperanto is flexible enough to be used creating new non-slang (= conforming the e-o grammar rules) words.

erinja:
Slang has a tendency to develop naturally when groups of people are friends, but simply making up new words and using them, in some kind of attempt to be "modern and cool", makes you hard to understand.

In my opinion Slang is a game like the Scrabble-Game and creating of Slang like removing letters from a word isn't intended to be "modern and cool". And every game has a "game over". (cool definition discussion). As far as people can switch between Slang and precize communication I only see Slang as a kind of spoken freaking-out/flipp-out. Freaking-out has another intention that precize communication. So, you mean language freaking-out isn't allowed in Esperanto?

erinja:
I have to say that the Esperanto spoken by the Esperanto "cool kids" at youth conventions barely differs at all from the Esperanto spoken by retirees -- and the differences are not what you think they are ... I suggest actually learning the language to the point of fluency before you try to make up all kinds of new slang words.

Go the hard way first before you allowed play around with the language? What are doing children learning their native language? They don't play with the language? They don't play together with other children playing with the language? Why a adult shouldn't be allowed to play like a children? Because adults don't do that? Like: Boys don't cry?

It has nothing to do with doing things "the hard way". It has to do with speaking the language in a way that everyone can understand - which is actually the easiest thing to do. You can still play with the language, but you do it within the rules, and without making up new words that others can't understand.

qwertz, you seem to have an image of Esperanto that if you speak it correctly, it isn't "colloquial" and isn't "everyday" and isn't "how real people speak". Speaking normal Esperanto as books teach it isn't the same as speaking "textbook English" or "textbook German". In fact, real Esperanto speakers tend to speak very similarly to how Esperanto is taught in books. I think you draw a false distinction between "book Esperanto" and "real Esperanto", and because you draw this distinction, it causes you to get a (false) idea that to speak everyday Esperanto, you must make up all kinds of weird slang that beginners like lavagulo can't understand.

If you're going to talk about people giving speeches at events - well, most events that I go to in English, people don't start out by saying "Hello" or "Hi" or any formal or informal variant thereof. But I say "hello" all the time in English, and I say "saluton" all the time in Esperanto.

erinja:It has nothing to do with doing things "the hard way". It has to do with speaking the language in a way that everyone can understand - which is actually the easiest thing to do. You can still play with the language, but you do it within the rules, and without making up new words that others can't understand.

For me, reaching the first learning plateau (in the field of foreign languages = basic vocabulary) in the beginning is the hard way.

erinja:
qwertz, you seem to have an image of Esperanto that if you speak it correctly, it isn't "colloquial" and isn't "everyday" and isn't "how real people speak".

Sorry, I don't. But your answers make me feel a little bit that extracting "slu" of "saluton" seems to be a kind of taboo topic. I mean it's less than micro-slangish doing that.

I had a lot of collegues at work I spoke to colloquial everyday in real (not baby German) Hochdeutsch/Standard German in simple sentences. And I have enough fantasy to enrich simple sentences to speak colloquial everyday. It takes a lot of energy but that's worth of because I want to communicate.

erinja:
Speaking normal Esperanto as books teach it isn't the same as speaking "textbook English" or "textbook German". In fact, real Esperanto speakers tend to speak very similarly to how Esperanto is taught in books.

Thanks for bringing that into focus. Yes, I agree, that's definitly a very big advantage of constructed languages over naturally languages. I failed with French two times.

erinja:
I think you draw a false distinction between "book Esperanto" and "real Esperanto", and because you draw this distinction, it causes you to get a (false) idea that to speak everyday Esperanto, you must make up all kinds of weird slang that beginners like lavagulo can't understand.

What "all kind of weird slang" did I create? I only know of Slu and that backbone & straw-in-a-glass joke. Believe me, I really dislike dialects. I have that absolut-nothing-understanding-cramp to handle everyday with a collegue from Lower Bavaria. I accept that some people believe in their dialects as part of their identity. But persisting on dialect definitivly blocks communication to alvojaĝantoj (Zugeroaste). But that experiences doesn't make me "Saluton" nethertheless more friendlier.

erinja:
If you're going to talk about people giving speeches at events - well, most events that I go to in English, people don't start out by saying "Hello" or "Hi" or any formal or informal variant thereof. But I say "hello" all the time in English, and I say "saluton" all the time in Esperanto.

And I will not say "saluton" anymore and that not to give same counterpart to you, but rather that I experienced at the two e-o meetings, that "saluton" has no value (means = communication stopper) for me means that "saluton" doesn't convey the personal greeting ambience I want to show to new friends.

qwertz:I visited two e-o meetings (IS 2008 in Biedenkopf/Germany, JES 2009 in Zakopane/Poland) and it didn't encounter to me that someone did greet me three peg "Sa-lu-ton". In my opinion "Sa-lu-ton" sounds denying. Something I definitivly not want to express to other people at a e-o meeting. As a beginner I tried it one time and got no answer. Sa-lu-ton just produced a communication wall.

That's really unbelievable: I tried it one time and got no answer.
He tried it once. Somebody who really thinks that one wrong word in greeting somebody else produces a communication wall doesn't have a language problem, that's a psychological problem.

I've got to admit that I always use "saluton" as my greeting to other Esperantists, and I have never experienced the communication wall that you describe.

I think you are drawing a conclusion from a single data point.

I use "saluton" all the time, most people I know use it all the time, and I think that if you said "saluton" and someone didn't respond, then the problem isn't the word; the problem is something else.

It is a very friendly and familiar greeting. There is zero need to make up your own new greeting. Saluton has served the purpose for a long time. I use it for everyone, both for people I have just met, and for my very best Esperanto friends. And they use it, too.

You seem to think that because it has three syllables, that it isn't friendly or familiar. I think it's all in your head; I think that you suppose, perhaps based on something in your native language, that "saluton" is some kind of long and formal greeting that no-one uses, and that isn't true at all.

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Maybe the one (and only?) time that you used the full "Saluton", the person simply didn't hear you. It would be considered very rude in Esperanto to ignore someone's greeting, even if they did choose some weird greeting like "slu" or "'ton" or "zog"