Question regarding the acusative -n and present participles...
de corystanish, 20 avril 2007
Messages : 3
Langue: English
corystanish (Voir le profil) 20 avril 2007 17:32:12
I have a grammatical question to which I have not been able to find an answer, and all the well-informed responses I've seen here make me think I might find an answer on this board.
I am translating the sentence:
"I am trying to help you."
1. Is "Mi provas helpi vi" correct? Or should I be using a present participle, ie: "Mi estas provanta helpi vi"? Or is that needlessly complicating the matter?
2. Either way, should there be an accusative -n on "vi"? I know it's not really the subject of the conjugated verb, but I feel I am missing something here.
I found some information about complex verb construction, but nothing where the infinitive verb has a subject of its own.
I am translating the sentence:
"I am trying to help you."
1. Is "Mi provas helpi vi" correct? Or should I be using a present participle, ie: "Mi estas provanta helpi vi"? Or is that needlessly complicating the matter?
2. Either way, should there be an accusative -n on "vi"? I know it's not really the subject of the conjugated verb, but I feel I am missing something here.
I found some information about complex verb construction, but nothing where the infinitive verb has a subject of its own.
erinja (Voir le profil) 20 avril 2007 18:13:13
Hi
You can say either "Mi provas helpi vin" or "Mi provas helpi al vi". They are both correct.
Regarding the -n ending, it doesn't matter if the verb is infinitive. Normally the -n ending is used with transitive verbs. In the case of "helpi", it has been used in both a transitive and an intransitive way, so it is definitely ok to use the -n with it.
"Mi provas helpi vin" (or: "Mi provas helpi al vi") literally means "I try to help you", but in everyday speech, it also means "I am trying to help you". However, if you really have your heart set on getting this exact "trying" verb form, to get the meaning that I am trying to help you *right this very second*, you could say "Mi estas provanta helpi al vi" or "Mi estas provanta helpi vin".
In practice, this form is rare in this kind of context, unless it is absolutely crucial that you make this distinction. Personally, I would stick with the simple "Mi provas helpi vin" or "Mi provas helpi al vi" until you have read enough Esperanto writing to have a better idea of the (limited) circumstances when we use the [estas] + [-anta] form.
You can say either "Mi provas helpi vin" or "Mi provas helpi al vi". They are both correct.
Regarding the -n ending, it doesn't matter if the verb is infinitive. Normally the -n ending is used with transitive verbs. In the case of "helpi", it has been used in both a transitive and an intransitive way, so it is definitely ok to use the -n with it.
"Mi provas helpi vin" (or: "Mi provas helpi al vi") literally means "I try to help you", but in everyday speech, it also means "I am trying to help you". However, if you really have your heart set on getting this exact "trying" verb form, to get the meaning that I am trying to help you *right this very second*, you could say "Mi estas provanta helpi al vi" or "Mi estas provanta helpi vin".
In practice, this form is rare in this kind of context, unless it is absolutely crucial that you make this distinction. Personally, I would stick with the simple "Mi provas helpi vin" or "Mi provas helpi al vi" until you have read enough Esperanto writing to have a better idea of the (limited) circumstances when we use the [estas] + [-anta] form.
corystanish (Voir le profil) 20 avril 2007 18:43:32
Thank you very much.
It's dialogue I'm translating dialogue, so what works in everyday speech is just fine.
Thanks again!
-Cory, with a new habit of practicing by re-subtitling his DVDs in Esperanto.
It's dialogue I'm translating dialogue, so what works in everyday speech is just fine.
Thanks again!
-Cory, with a new habit of practicing by re-subtitling his DVDs in Esperanto.