Slu/Sal/Saluton,

taken from another thread

AnFu:

qwertz:
In my opinion, as long as people fight (also includes defense) Esperanto there will everytime sombody fight or defense back. In my opinion Raŭmismo/Civitanismo is proper for current less-militarious time spreading Esperanto. Finvenkismo comes from the time where much more conflicts like today tracked to a military conflict.

"Kulturegigu e-on, ne (necesa) batalu por/pro e-on." slogan will give that e-o spreadness more "non-military" laxness. But I'm not really satisfied with that slogan. How would you express a short slogan somebody could say stopping troll and anti-troll battles?

"Instead of putting energy into battling/defending for E-o, try to express more culture branches (i.e. music, theatre etc.) using the E-o language tool."

I strongly agree with your statement in your first paragraph. Thank you for saying that.

I also really like your slogan idea. Maybe a slogan like that one could spread and be commonly understood by everyone, similar to how the saying "Please don't feed the trolls" is understood by almost everyone.

Some suggestions (please correct, improve and suggest your own):

"Ne batalu por/pro/pri E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

"Ne militigu pro E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

"Ne militigu pro E-o, Kulturu E-on"

""Ne militaxigu pro E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

"Ne batalu por/pro/pri E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

"Ne batalu/disputu/argumentu por/pro/pri E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

I also like the idea of using -acx- . For example: "Ne disputacxu/militacxigu/batalacxu...

Others can advise or improve regarding transitivity/intransitivity, the proper or preferred preposition (por/pro/pri), and whether prepositions are even necessary thus shortening the slogan by using the accusative (-n ).

That's all. I have to go off to work now.

ĝp,

Just curious, does "Ne al kontraŭ(eg)ismo" mean anything well and meaningful, or does it just sound nice with no real meaning behind it?

But we do have a slogan, or perhaps diraĵo would be better. "Ne krokodilu!" It drives the trolls away. I understand that a well-known American kabeinto left the movement because of it.

AnFu:
"Ne batalu por/pro/pri E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

I like this version. It first points to the current situation ("batelu") and tries later to redirect the energy which is used for batteling to "kulturegigu". Also that "por/pro/pri" triple should be fine this way, or not?

I'm not sure which of pro/por/pri would be better. Pro makes it sound like Esperanto started the fight, por makes it sound like we're fighting for the sake of EO, and pri.. Well, pri just feels a little odd, but it seems the best after all...

@ Miland: however, ne krokodilu means nary but "paroli nacilingve en E-ista medio" (or at least according to the Lernu vortaro), which doesn't necessary equate to "Let's not kill eachother over the issue of Esperanto" I assume

(depends on the situation though, I guess if a noisy man were to gate-crash an EO conference talking about how bad EO is in Mongolian, "ne krokodilu" would be a very appropriate slogan, provided they knew EO).

Just as a reminder, this 'slogan' was in response to recent posts that were 'trollish' or nearly trollish and the efforts of well-meaning people to argue with those 'trollish' posts. There was a lot of time and energy expended (wasted?) arguing with those posts.

qwertz:

AnFu:
"Ne batalu por/pro/pri E-o, Kulturegigu E-on"

I like this version. It first points to the current situation ("batelu") and tries later to redirect the energy which is used for batteling to "kulturegigu". Also that "por/pro/pri" triple should be fine this way, or not?

I also like this version. I prefer it to the other versions.

Yes, that sentence structure does redirect energy, effort, and focus. I learned it from a mother and saw her use it with her children. It was very effective. It is much more effective than just saying "don't do that".

It is also effective with adults. Sometimes we all need a little 'redirection'.

ceigered: I'm not sure which of pro/por/pri would be better. Pro makes it sound like Esperanto started the fight, por makes it sound like we're fighting for the sake of EO, and pri.. Well, pri just feels a little odd, but it seems the best after all...

Thank you. That was the type of feedback or opinion I was hoping for. I also thought the same as you, but I don't know enough about actual Esperanto usage to be sure, especially in unusual situations. So, thank you Ceigered.

The "por/pro/pri" does fit in this situation. However, to make the sentence shorter and less odd, I think reducing "por/pro/pri" to only "pri" might be better. It would be easier to remember, say, and write. It would also be easier to understand and less odd. What do others think about using only "pri"?

So, a shortened form would be:
"Ne batalu pri E-o, Kulturegigu E-on!"
What do people think about that?

In general, I think communication is more effective when it is simple, short, and direct.

Therefore, I was also thinking about the possibility of shortening "kulturegigu" to just "kulturu". That would shorten it to:
"Ne batalu pri E-o, Kulturu E-on!"
Would that work? Is it better?

Thank you for any input or comments.

kulturegigi doesn't make sense to me at all.

kulturi is already a transitive verb, btw, so the -ig- part of the word is unnecessary, and I don't see the point of the -eg-.

At any rate I don't see a point in having a slogan of this nature. If a troll is coming and complaining about Esperanto, why would they be interested in working to increase Esperanto culture? They obviously don't like the language as it is, so why would they work on developing the culture of a language they don't even like? It doesn't make sense to me.

Trolls are best ignored. Slogans won't have an impact on them. If you don't respond to their annoying comments, they'll move on to greener pastures.

erinja:At any rate I don't see a point in having a slogan of this nature. If a troll is coming and complaining about Esperanto, why would they be interested in working to increase Esperanto culture? They obviously don't like the language as it is, so why would they work on developing the culture of a language they don't even like? It doesn't make sense to me.

Trolls are best ignored. Slogans won't have an impact on them. If you don't respond to their annoying comments, they'll move on to greener pastures.

Well, there's no such thing as a positive rational troll, so yes, any argument with them will always be futile (although giving a calm rational argument helps, that it reveals the irrationality of trolls.)

A well-thought slogan, that can't be misunderstood and misused by trolls and also give a good impression, also helps, though. Slogans starting with "ne" will always have negative connotations, so it's best to avoid that. Use "ni" instead as to be more inclusive (like "Ni pliriĉigu E-on!").

Not to mention that part of the problem with trolls is that it can be easy for the irrationality to be caught, so having a slogan can help the "victims" not dirty their hands too in a sense...

Not that I see this kontraŭ-trolo-kontraŭ-kontraŭ-trol-ismo slogan movement as being a grand priority, but it's a fun idea at least.

The only useful anti-troll* slogan is "Foriru! Mi diros nenion pli al vi."

And then follow through on it.

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* Only to be used on real trolls, of course, and not just the intractably mistaken. A fine distinction, sometimes, but an important one.