Mesaĝoj: 58
Lingvo: English
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-05 15:43:16
There are times when I want to tell someone specifically that I'd rather have a bottle than a can, or vice versa; those are both "ujoj" but in that case I'd have to tell the person whether I preferred a "botelo" or a "ladskatolo"
It's rather like 'skribilo' versus plumo or krajono, though, in my opinion. (writing implement / pen / pencil). Sometimes you just don't care and you use the generic word, sometimes you care, and we have specific words for those cases as well.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-05 22:22:08
The thing about cans and tins of drinks and foods is that they are opened once, emptied and then discarded.
Anyway, I have a distinct feeling that these are not 'ujoj'.
Bierujo, trinkujo, supujo do not conjure in my mind cans or tins, though conceivably they may be made out of 'lado'.
A 'botelo' may well be an ujo, from its reusable nature. But tins or cans are usually one-time only containers.
Apparently in a 1927 Komerca Vortaro the term 'doso' was proposed, but this seems to have been still-born.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-05 22:31:51
Perhaps you read about this usage in a different grammar that I am not familiar with. This is new to me.
I wouldn't use a term "bierujo", "supujo", etc to refer to cans of beer or tins of soup, regardless of your reasoning, however. It's because those words seem awfully specific to me. A beer can doesn't differ significantly from a Coke can, so I don't see a point in using different words to describe them.
Reminds me in a way of how in Italian, coffee without caffeine is said to be "decaffeinated" whereas tea without caffeine is "deteinated", even though the chemical substance that has been removed is the same in both cases! A strange precision, in my mind.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-06 09:41:12
This meaning also sort of explains how Pomujo was used by Z. to mean a Pom-arbo (the fruit are replenished with each season). And even the senco of 'lando'. In Francujo the francoj die off and are replace with new ones as the generations proceed.
But I think you feel this too in rejecting 'supujo' as a soup tin - except in the sense of a mess-tin which a First World War soldier might present in a field kitchen and into which his ration of soup might be ladled.
Donniedillon (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-06 12:54:47
sudanglo:Well the proof of the pudding, Erinja, is in the eating. If you can find me a classic ujo-word where the container is essentially disposable, one time-use, (to be discarded after opening), I could change my opinion.This seems to me to be unnecessary. Why must a container always be refillable? Are there not disposable containers as well? Why nit-pick? Ujo = container. Refillable, or otherwise. I don't see anything in Reta Vortaro, the Lernu Vortaro, or in my dcitionary (Benson) to indicate otherwise.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-06 13:47:32
erinja:ujo definitely works, though it's generic.Is "ujlado" or "lada ujo" possible? (I was thinking "ladujo" sounded nice but that sort of insinuates a container for lado
There are times when I want to tell someone specifically that I'd rather have a bottle than a can, or vice versa; those are both "ujoj" but in that case I'd have to tell the person whether I preferred a "botelo" or a "ladskatolo"
It's rather like 'skribilo' versus plumo or krajono, though, in my opinion. (writing implement / pen / pencil). Sometimes you just don't care and you use the generic word, sometimes you care, and we have specific words for those cases as well.
) erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-06 15:48:25
lada ujo is fine. It means a container that is described by lado; you could say lada ujo the same way that you could say ligna skatolo. No problem. It's only when you put the suffix -uj- on the root lad/ that you run into this problem, because at that point the suffix's functionality comes in, and you wind up with ladujo, meaning 'a container for holding tin'
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-06 16:02:06
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-06 23:20:00
And miland that's a creative way of doing it - especially since it's hard to mine tin from apples or purée! (so unless eo enters another universe where minerals arenmined from food, I can't forsee any major confusions minus maybe a "tin... Of.... Aaaah")
Could enlada work too? Eg enlada trinko?
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-07 02:33:14
a "trinko" would be a drink in the sense of the action of drinking. "I took a drink" (took a swig of a liquid) - that's trinko. "I took a drink" (picked up a beverage container) - that's trinkaĵo.