メッセージ: 31
言語: English
ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 7:44:52
erinja:It should be like e in rent, definitely not like in Mary or marry (but some people would pronounce it like the e in merry, depending on their local accent!)O_O Mary doesn't have the E in rent in other Englishes?
Pronounce it like e in rent and you'll be just fine.
[url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vêtement]Vêtements[/url],the French word for "clothes", has an E sound identical to the EO one in the first syllable, vête (which is related to the English "vest", which also has the correct E sound in it).
If you want a bit more of a challenge to try and mimic a more romance-speaker version of the Espearnto "e", try and pronounce the last syllable of [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/français]Français[/url], the "-ais" part. If you make it "ej" then you're pronunciation will sound odd
To contrast, here's what an "ej" in Esperanto sounds like, in Vieil. They both sound similar to each other, but the difference between a crisp e and a "ej" sound is the movement at the end of the vowel.Otherwise, RiotNrrd's advice is already spot on.
Roberto12 (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 10:21:25
Frankouche:Both sounds [e] [ɛ] are understandable.I agree; I use both of these realisations for the letter E. In spite of the fact that purists say there should only be one realisation per vowel, two realisations work, and you actually improve the distinction between words this way. For example, I pronounce ses as [ses] and sep as [sEp]; if I were to speak "properly" I would find myself in a situation where two numerals are only one phoneme different orally! Another example of mine is sub as [sUb] and sur as [sur].
Btw, am I the only person who thinks it's a bit suboptimal to have the same vowel in the words for yes and no? If you see someone mouth one of them in the distance, it's not as clear as it should be which is which. (There's a similar problem in German, but not in English or French.)
Evildela (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 10:29:44
k1attack:Some websites say the EO "e" is "e" as in English "bed/rent", while others say it's the "e" as in "vein" (without the glide).Well that’s because English isn't as universal as most people think, its sounds vary between regions following local accents, and the effects of other local languages upon it.
ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 11:13:28
.@k1attack:
That's because in practical terms they're pretty much the same thing. You can even get away with that sort of thing in French where there's "meant" to be a distinction. All that nonsense you'll see about having precise vowels in many languages is often just so you can copy their accent perfectly and often has very little to do with being understood or speaking correctly (or correctly enough
).EO has no distinctions between the "e" in "bed/rent" and "e" in "vein" without the glide to "i". But "bed/rent" is a better example for most English dialects - e.g. in Australian, we say "vein" with an "a" sound like in "cat" followed by "i", so that doesn't sound anything like the EO "e".
See this IPA chart for the regional differences in English's pronunciation. All of the "e"s under the code "dress" are good enough for the EO "e". Now look at the code for "face" and see how much variation for "ei/ay" there is. So definitely just use the "e" in "dress, bed, let, get, red" etc.
erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 12:36:57
Esperanto is very accepting of different accents so to a great extent, it really doesn't matter if your vowel is a little more open or a little more closed. We have few enough vowels that it doesn't hurt comprehension to pronounce with a slightly different E.
And occasionally an Esperanto letter will come off pronounced slightly differently due to its position in a word, unintentionally. But to intentionally pronounce two Esperanto letters that are the same, with different pronunciations, seems to me to be against the Fundamento. I wouldn't do it and I would never encourage others to do it.
I can see coming up with a modified version of ses and sep for use by radio amateurs, rather like the radio alphabet used to ensure that letters are understood correctly; a tiny difference in the pronunciation of the E wouldn't do it. As I understand it, some ine the Esperanto radio amateur community use sis and sep, and others use ses and sepen, to distinguish on the air. (Only for radio use however, not for everyday)
ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 13:42:12
erinja:And occasionally an Esperanto letter will come off pronounced slightly differently due to its position in a word, unintentionally. But to intentionally pronounce two Esperanto letters that are the same, with different pronunciations, seems to me to be against the Fundamento. I wouldn't do it and I would never encourage others to do it.I think Roberto12 meant that his letters were pronounced slightly different in those cases unintentionally, ingrained by habit, yet he was still aware of their existence, like with myself, who says /sUb/ (with the "u" in "put" in AUEng) and /sur/ as well.
erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2010年9月11日 14:17:59