Mesaĝoj: 22
Lingvo: English
Simioenlaurbo (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 01:48:02
So, I’ve bemoaned Esperanto’s lack of a laudative ever since I discovered Na’vi has it
, but then recently I came across this:http://mojose.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/ujo-la-sufi...
A kindred soul who also seeks to express the opposite of "aĉ" in Esperanto and whose suggestion is the suffix "uĵ." That link subsequently led to the Wikipedia article on Esperanto suffixes/prefixes/affixes (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_vocabulary#List_of_prefixes)
which says that “el” has actually been used as a laudative, but basically just in poetry/literary works. I don’t like that “el” already has another meaning; the opposite to "aĉigi" couldn’t be "eligi" without causing some confusion.
However, I do like that "el" has some history being used to express the praising sentiment in Esperanto (whereas "uĵ" is a much newer creation). And really, to my ears at least, veterelo, skribelo, etc. have a nice ring to them.
I guess my questions then are: Does anybody know of any poems where I can see this use of “el”? Or should this simio just be shooed away and go learn Na’vi?
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 02:35:51
uĵ is dead on arrival as far as I'm concerned, I'm really not interested in starting to use a word that some random blogger made up (and which a fraction of his or her small readership decides to use)
I have never in my life heard of an "el" suffix, which is equally non-existent as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps a random person in the past made it up, similar to "uĵ". I have no clue where it comes from; some of the non-official affixes that have a limited degree of use come from Ido, but I just checked a list of Ido affixes, and neither el nor uĵ seem to be there. Seems like they were both made up out of thin air.
Maybe people will be more interested in learning Esperanto if we spend more time speaking it and using it to do cool stuff that will make our non-Esperantist friends jealous that they don't speak it, and less time trying to think up all kinds of great ways to improve it.
patrik (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 04:07:05
According to Privat, it was proposed by a certain Prof. Christaller "to show the opposite of '-aĉ'...in accordance to words like anĝelo, modelo, ĉielo, belo, mielo, etc." But Privat said that a language that lacks a "laudative" suffix can make up for it by using images. Instead of saying "hom-el-o", we can say "anĝelo"; instead of "vin-el-o", "nektaro", etc. This process is so well-known, he says, that no one would commit a mistake of "hop(ing) to find white-feathered wings underneath the shirt of a kind-hearted person who is called an 'anĝelo'." As much I like "el" than "uĵ" (sounds like Orkish to me*), I agree with him in this case, and it's unfortunate that "el" is already used as a preposition.
* - It's nice to note that "el" appears in the Silmarillion as the first word ever uttered by the Elves upon seeing the stars to express their admiration for them. Hehehe. Iconicity.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 07:31:24
E.g. Dommalaĉo. A nice little house?
To be honest in some ways I barely find a use for aĉ except for certain words like domaĉo (although the translation of "shack" as domaĉo doesn't really work in the sense we use "shack" for here), so I'm not fussed anyway.
LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 08:25:38
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 10:05:13
'ind' can sometimes have a mild laudatory effect - for example 'leginda libro', vidindaĵo, trinkinda vino.
jeeks (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 10:20:02
I'd prefer "bona" or "bonega"; the problem with "-malacx-" is, that people hear the "-acx-" but not the "-mal-".
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 10:50:02
jeeks:I like the idea of -ujx- but I don't think many people use it, so I won't use it either, because I want to avoid to confuse my friends.If you don't mind me adding English grammar notes, "avoid" in that sense is transitive so it needs to have a noun after it (or a noun phrase), so you say "avoid confusing my friends" with the -ing noun/adjective form of a verb (strangely, "my friends" still acts like the object of a verb
)."I want to avoid (something) so that my friends can be made confused by my evasion" is sort of what "I want to avoid to confuse my friends"
.I agree with what you said about -malaĉ-, it's most effective in writing and not so effective in speech.
jeeks (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 10:57:21
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-11 11:15:28
jeeks:Whoops, seems like my english is as bad as ever... But thanks for the advice, I'll remember it whenever I use "avoid"Nah it wasn't bad at all, I could understand perfectly, but I thought that tip might come in handy in some situations when translating into English