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Was Agatha Christie a closet Esperantist?

ya sudanglo, 13 Septemba 2010

Ujumbe: 24

Lugha: English

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Septemba 2010 6:54:15 alasiri

Miland, I've not come across many books in Esperanto that you could describe as page-turners, and I doubt that we have the talent in the Movement to produce them as Esperanto originals.

However I think we have enough competent speakers to produce readable translations.

So if you want a book that's a good read, it is most likely that is going to have to be a translation, as a simple practical matter.

I am not particularly concerned that the book should have great literary merits - much more that it should hold my attention.

I've very much enjoyed reading a couple of Maigrets in Esperanto - more I imagine than I would have enjoyed them in English, and my French is not quite good enough to read them in French for pure pleasure.

If a translation is not quite perfect Esperanto in few places, I can easily put up with that if the rest of it is good.

My position is that I want to read best-sellers in Esperanto.

Because of the size of the market for books in English and the number of native speakers, the chances are that such a book would make its appearance in English.

Perhaps, though, I shouldn't have added the qualifier 'after its appearance in English' to my original remark.

Miland (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Septemba 2010 7:26:43 alasiri

sudanglo:Miland, I've not come across many books in Esperanto that you could describe as page-turners, and I doubt that we have the talent in the Movement to produce them as Esperanto originals.
No doubt you know of the classical Esperanto authors. But you might also find good suggestions in the anthology by Boris Kolker Vojaĝo en Esperanto-lando, as it has extracts from less well-known books.

erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Septemba 2010 7:33:25 alasiri

I moved through "Kredu min, sinjorino!" relatively quickly. It was a light read, nothing heavy, and entertaining.

But I have to admit that many of these bestsellers don't do too much for me. I find many of them to have lame plots that are full of holes, and bad writing (ahem, I'm looking at you, DaVinci Code). Nothing turns me off more than bad writing.

"Kroatmilita noktolibro" also kept me engaged the whole time. It's not so light and fluffy, of course, given the topic (the war in which Yugoslavia dissolved)

Miland (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Septemba 2010 8:38:15 alasiri

erinja:But I have to admit that many of these bestsellers don't do too much for me.. (ahem, I'm looking at you, DaVinci Code).
I've enjoyed Dan Brown's novels myself, though I found that having finished them, I quickly forgot their contents. But I then enjoyed the films, since I had forgotten the plot. I understand that his last one, The last symbol is being made into a film. I look forward to seeing it.

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Septemba 2010 9:48:13 asubuhi

Of course, one advantage of being able to read best-sellers in Esperanto translation soon after their original appearance would be the propaganda effect.

Given that pdf files of complete books apparently don't take up that much storage, the publication of such books on the net might be quite cheap.

Also the net allows the labour to be divided, with say a translator for each chapter. This would allow very rapid appearance of the translation.

The translation of Harry Harrison's science fiction book "Stainless Steel Rat is Born" (Naskiĝo de la rustimuna ŝtalrato - en E.) was done this way back in the 90's, and is a good read. You can't see at all that the translation was shared out.

ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Septemba 2010 9:53:49 asubuhi

sudanglo:Also the net allows the labour to be divided, with say a translator for each chapter. This would allow very rapid appearance of the translation.
This does occur ridiculously often, not necessary into Esperanto, but with manga from Japanese to whatever language people are "fan translating" it for. One of the inherit difficulties in adapting this "fan translation" model (I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be fans translating, but if the aim is for speedy and relatively standard translations, then I presume the translation work is primarily intended for the benefit of the fans) may be working out a more legally transparent process in which the speediness of "open sourcing" the translation work can still be retained.

Otherwise, I guess it's quicker for us to get our thinking caps out and learn how to write decent novels in Esperanto, or at least hope some decent authors take up Esperanto. (well, Philodice's poetry is pretty good, at least we know we've got at least good author here lol, surely there's bound to be other good writers just waiting to spread their analogical wings).

erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Septemba 2010 1:25:21 alasiri

You have to be super careful when dividing a translation, to have a single person go through at the end and even things up. It was really eminent Esperantists who translated the Stainless Steel Rat, so I'm sure they did this. If you have translations done by "regular" Esperantists, there are more likely to be inconsistencies and errors, and the translation would need careful checking before it is published.

I have definitely noticed problems with consistency in fan-translated subtitles of the Korean dramas I watch. Names of characters, titles, etc change back and forth over the series, due to different transliteration or translation choices.

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Septemba 2010 10:28:48 alasiri

You could always apportion translation work before the appearance of the Net.

The difference the Net makes is in the ease with which you can coordinate and harmonise the efforts of the various parties working on the translation.

And obviously, Erinja, you employ competent Esperantists. We all know the meznivelo of the 'regular' Esperantist.

erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 17 Septemba 2010 1:22:58 asubuhi

sudanglo:And obviously, Erinja, you employ competent Esperantists. We all know the meznivelo of the 'regular' Esperantist.
To make a good translation requires more than competence.

In most circumstances, translators are only advised to translate INTO their native language. It is greatly preferred over a translator translating into a non-native language, no matter the translator's proficiency. It is normally assumed that a native speaker will always understand some nuances of usage or grammar that will escape a non-native speaker.

This presents us with a problem in Esperanto. We are nearly all non-native speakers. Even with speakers who are functionally fluent and speak what I would consider good Esperanto, I often notice grammatical errors. No one is perfect, and I make occasional errors myself, of course. But out of the many, many Esperanto speakers I have met (including people active in the Esperanto movement), there are relatively few who I would consider to speak in a nearly error-free way. As a result, if I wished to translate a text into error-free Esperanto, and if I wished to choose a person to do this, the group I would choose from would be relatively small, and I wouldn't put the task out to a large group of translators online. I would invite only certain trusted individuals to work on this project.

That's why in almost any online setting where I see an Esperanto translation - subtitles to a movie, a translation of a mainstream website, etc - there are almost always errors. Not typos, but errors that show that the translator's knowledge of Esperanto was much less than perfect.

ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 17 Septemba 2010 5:14:49 asubuhi

I suspect that sudanglo meant competent in the sense of having expetise in Esperanto and thus expertise in translating said confusing nuances, like 'competent' in this case lango.gif

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