Wpisy: 22
Język: English
erinja (Pokaż profil) 19 września 2010, 12:25:47
One - to use a verb after a preposition, it has to be an i-form verb. So you can't use your -as verb here. "Mi povas fari nenion krom ami ŝin" would be a correct example.
Two - "mi" can't take this function after the preposition. You can't use "krom" to as a connector to a whole separate phrase, not without another word, like "se" for example. Or "ke".
For example: "Mi venos, krom se vi ne volas tion" (as you can see, "krom se" ends up taking a meaning like "unless")
Based on these examples, I wouldn't say that "krom" acts as a coordinating conjunction. There are too many rules governing its use. It's not as flexible as the Esperanto coordinating conjuncions like sed, kaj, kvankam, etc.
ceigered (Pokaż profil) 19 września 2010, 13:01:43
erinja:ceigered, your sentence is wrong for a couple of reasons.Whoah very thorough, you could have just told me it can only function as a preposition and not a conjunction and I would have understood perfectly
One - to use a verb after a preposition, it has to be an i-form verb. So you can't use your -as verb here. "Mi povas fari nenion krom ami ŝin" would be a correct example.
Two - "mi" can't take this function after the preposition. You can't use "krom" to as a connector to a whole separate phrase, not without another word, like "se" for example. Or "ke".
For example: "Mi venos, krom se vi ne volas tion" (as you can see, "krom se" ends up taking a meaning like "unless")
Based on these examples, I wouldn't say that "krom" acts as a coordinating conjunction. There are too many rules governing its use. It's not as flexible as the Esperanto coordinating conjuncions like sed, kaj, kvankam, etc.
(but, I understand that beginners mightn't have so I say that all in jest). (or shorter: thanks Erinja for the correcting my abuse of krom and forcing him to be something he isn't 
)So what's the correct way to say things like "except for", e.g. "I would hate her except I love her" as used as an example before? Krom ke?
e.g. "Mi malamus ŝin krom ke mi amas ŝin"?
Now... to remember what that conjunction that functioned as a preposition as well was. Maybe that was "dum"... Mmm... Except that's a subordinating conjunction... Argh I think the mind's fried for today!
erinja (Pokaż profil) 19 września 2010, 13:13:14
horsto (Pokaż profil) 19 września 2010, 23:21:17
ceigered: "I would hate her except I love her" as used as an example before? Krom ke?I wouldn't understand the Esperanto sentence. Do you want to say:
e.g. "Mi malamus ŝin krom ke mi amas ŝin"?
Mi malamus ŝin se mi ne amus ŝin.
?
If yes, then I also hate the idea behind, it's really 'abomena' (I didn't find the english word). The real meaning is: I would hate this woman but I like to fuck her.
erinja (Pokaż profil) 19 września 2010, 23:56:29
I think the phrase is describing a kind of love/hate relationship, when you are attracted to someone and repulsed by them at the same time. Maybe it would be like being attracted to a very beautiful and witty person who was also cruel and heartless.
Genjix (Pokaż profil) 20 września 2010, 03:03:45
horsto:Sounds like abominable.ceigered: "I would hate her except I love her" as used as an example before? Krom ke?I wouldn't understand the Esperanto sentence. Do you want to say:
e.g. "Mi malamus ŝin krom ke mi amas ŝin"?
Mi malamus ŝin se mi ne amus ŝin.
?
If yes, then I also hate the idea behind, it's really 'abomena' (I didn't find the english word). The real meaning is: I would hate this woman but I like to fuck her.
That PMEG link is very good. I suggest other beginners to thoroughly examine that too.
Genjix (Pokaż profil) 20 września 2010, 03:04:21
erinja:Let's keep our language clean, ok?Welcome to the internet, mum
RiotNrrd (Pokaż profil) 20 września 2010, 03:28:35
Genjix:Welcome to the internet forum where Erinja (a Lernu team member) is an official moderator, and who is well within her rights to offer advice on how to behave here.erinja:Let's keep our language clean, ok?Welcome to the internet, mum
ceigered (Pokaż profil) 20 września 2010, 06:11:03
@ Horsto:
That is not the intended meaning, rather, the meaning needs more context to make any sense, I feel, e.g.:
"Damn it! My girlfriend borrowed my car AGAIN without my permission. I would hate her for it, except for the fact that I absolutely adore her"
No doubt "Mi malamus ŝin sed mi ja amegas ŝin" would be easier to understand, but I needed to use "krom (ke)" in the first sense I could think of
."Mi malamus ŝin se mi ne amus ŝin."
to me translates as "I would hate her but I don't love her", so I am not sure how that relates al la temo de f*kvolo. Perhaps there is a meaning in "amegi" that I am not yet familiar with that has more sinister implications than I intended?
(after rereading Erinja's suggestion on the meaning, yes, that's definitely another thing I had in mind - really loving someone who has rather horrid traits about them, but perhaps there is something nice in them. Perhaps related to the real person under the well made mask dilemma
). ceigered (Pokaż profil) 20 września 2010, 08:43:07
super-griek:Oh... My bad!ceigered:"Mi malamus ŝin se mi ne amus ŝin."The text says "se", not "sed"
to me translates as "I would hate her but I don't love her
=> "I would hate her if I wouldn't love her"