Съобщения: 8
Език: English
eojeff (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 00:37:19
First, why does it seem to come up in questions/responses to what the time of day is? Is it intended to convey slight uncertainty (i.e., because your watch might be slightly fast?)
Second, since "je" has no fixed meaning, can it properly be used like the same way as the Yiddish word "Oy?" The word "Oy" itself has no fixed meaning Yiddish, but the common expression "Oy Vey" means roughly "Oh Woe!" in English. So, would "je malĝojo" suffice as a good translation of that expression into Esperanto?
Third, to continue with the "Oy" example, can "je" be used alone (to express exasperation for example) supplying meaning only with tone of voice?
I'm new to Esperanto, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the different ways "je" is used and why.
Thanks,
-Jeff
Evildela (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 01:02:36
Now I've found the best way to use je, is when no other preposition would fit.
Angle: At what time will you come?
Esperante: Je kioma horo vi venos
Angle: At five o'clock
Esperante: je la kvina horo
You can't use ĉe, proksim/a, or apud because they are all talking about proximity as in distances. So We use Je to introduce the sentence. Perhaps someone else can explain better, im not sure. Also je is mainly used when talking about time.
You also have -
Esperante: Be! = What?!?
Esperante: Ba! = Damit!
Esperante: Ho! = Oh!
Esperante: volapukaĵo! = nonsense!
Thats all I can think off the top of my head
erinja (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 02:21:34
As Evildela says, it's sort of a catch-all preposition for when no other preposition seems to have a suitable meaning. Its most well-known use is for telling time. But by definition, it is the preposition to use when no other preposition seems suitable.
frapi je pordo = to knock at a door (frapi al pordo, frapi kontraŭ pordo, etc these would be other correct options; since there are other correct options, maybe "je" isn't the best choice, but I have seen it used this way)
AnFu (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 02:40:04
eojeff:I have two questions related to the preposition "je."The basic rule with prepositions is to use them in the most literal, logical, and concrete way possible. Because time is a rather abstract, non-tangible thing, it is difficult to determine the best preposition to use with time situations. For example, is the party "on/on top of/sur" Monday? Well, not really. Is the party "in/inside of/en" Monday? Again, not really. Is the party at/at the location of/cxe 3 pm? No, not really. So since time relations are so fuzzy, vague, and undefined, most people usually use "je" and therefore it seems to be the default or most common preposition for time relationships of time of day, day, day of week, month, year, century, etc
First, why does "je" seem to come up in questions/responses to what the time of day is?
"Dum/during" is also usable in some time expressions.
Compounding the problem of time relationships being vague or abstract, languages deal with time related prepositions in various ways. Thus people with different language backgrounds have different ways of thinking about time related prepositions, so be prepared to see other prepositions used in time relationships.
eojeff:Is it intended to convey slight uncertainty (i.e., because your watch might be slightly fast?)No.
eojeff:Second, since "je" has no fixed meaning, can it properly be used like the same way as the Yiddish word "Oy?"No. Remember, 'je' is a preposition.
eojeff:Third, to continue with the "Oy" example, can "je" be used alone (to express exasperation for example) supplying meaning only with tone of voice?Sorry, but you already used up your stated two questions. Just kidding.
Answer: No.
Ho ve! = Oy vay!
eojeff (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 03:01:28
Yes, I realized that I'd stated I had two questions and then went on to ask a third--but only after I committed the post. I can count, honest
Thanks for the help
AnFu (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 03:16:54
eojeff:Yes, I realized that I'd stated I had two questions and then went on to ask a third...I've done that too, probably most people have. Thanks for taking the kidding well.
And welcome to the Lernu forums.
ceigered (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 09:24:55
"Mi havas multajn ludojn je mia komputilo" (although I occaisionally use "sur" and "en" depending on further context, but "je" is what I use if I'm referring to data that is more just floating around in cyberspace).
erinja (Покажи профила) 15 октомври 2010, 16:12:24