Сообщений: 22
Язык: English
ceigered (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 5:16:36
(also what's sol' en trog' mean?)
acdibble (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 5:25:27
Ĉiuj dormas. Solaj en la trogo
Maldormas la sanktaj geedzoj.
Ĉarma knabo kun buklaj haroj,
Dormu en ĉiela paco!
Dorum en ĉiela paco!
Trankvila nokto! Sankta nokto!
Al tri ŝafistoj sciigis
Unue per la anĝeloj,
Forsonis el malproksimo kaj proksimo:
La Savinto alvenis!
La Savinto alvenis!
Trankvila nokto! Sankta nokto!
Filo de Dio! Kiel amo ridas
de via dia buŝo,
Tiam la sava horo batas
Jesuo post via nasko!
Jesuo post via nasko!
Here's a prose version which I think is accurate to what I translated.
erinja (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 13:44:15
Poetic license is the reason why we are allowed to drop the -a in "la" and the -o on nouns; but to avoid misunderstanding, these changes are not allowed on other words. That's why if an esperanto speaker sees a root ending with an apostrophe, the Esperanto speaker automatically assumes that that word must be a noun, regardless of context.
It would be better to chop off the beginning of a word in the name of poetic license ('stas instead of "estas", for example) rather than chopping off an ending. Because the meaning of the word has to be obvious, and if you write "dorm'", then the obvious meaning to an Esperantist is "dormo". It's like saying "bike" when you mean something other than bicycle; it causes confusion because everyone knows that "bike" means "bicycle".
Some hints if you're looking to reduce syllable count - use "veki" instead of "maldormi". You could say "sankta paro" instead of "sanktaj geedzoj"
You're missing an -n in your last stanza. I think it should be "Tiam amo batas la savan homon" but I am not familiar with the text so I don't know. But I wouldn't say that amo "batas" someone. Maybe "trafas". I am unfamiliar with the original text so I really can't tell you the best choice.
"unue de la anĝeloj" means "firstly from the angels"; if you mean that the angels told the shepherds first, that should be "al la ŝafistoj sciigis / Unue la anĝeloj" or "La ŝafistojn sciigis / Unue la anĝeloj" (the angels let the shepherds know first)
Or if you mean that the shepherds found out first, that would be "Unue eksciis la ŝafistoj / de la anĝeloj" [the shepherds found out first, from the angels]
In general, I would recommend going with a slightly less literal translation if you want to stay with meter, instead of mangling words beyond recognition.
Miland (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 13:50:54
Silenta nokt', sankta nokt'
Trankvila kaj hela tuta mond'
Ĉirkaŭ tiu virgulin' kaj infan'
Sankta, tenera, kaj netimiga
Dormu en trankvila pac'
Dormu en trankvila pac'
Silenta nokt', sankta nokt'
Solenan timon havas ŝafistoj
Kiam el Ĉiel' torentas gloroj
Kantistaro ĉiela laŭdas
Naskiĝis Krist' la savant'
Naskiĝis Krist' la savant'
Silenta nokt', sankta nokt'
Difilo, amlumo
Venas radoj el sankta vizaĝ'
La aŭroro de savanta grac'
Kiam vi naskiĝas, sinjor'
Jesu, nun kun ni, sinjor'
darkweasel (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 13:58:19
erinja:use "veki" instead of "maldormi".Uh, no, veki (≠ esti veka) means "to wake someone up" (transitive meaning) according to ReVo.
erinja (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 14:02:39
darkweasel:Uh, no, veki (≠ esti veka) means "to wake someone up" (transitive meaning) according to ReVo.You're right of course. I'm obviously not thinking clearly.
ceigered (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 14:20:35
erinja (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2010 г., 14:35:41
Mi estas veka = I am awake [colloquial]
Mi estas vekiĝinta = I am awake [technically correct thing that no one seems to say. As Anna Lowenstein, Renato Corsetti's wife, once told me, you hardly turn to your spouse in the middle of the night and say "Ĉu vi estas vekiĝinta?"]
acdibble (Показать профиль) 24 декабря 2010 г., 2:21:33
erinja:Poetic license is the reason why we are allowed to drop the -a in "la" and the -o on nouns; but to avoid misunderstanding, these changes are not allowed on other wordsThose changes are allowed by the 16 rules, no poetic license there. You can do that in everyday speech if you want. Also, it wasn't mangled beyond recognition if you understood it without looking at the prose. The word wasn't what it was initially expected to be but it's not incomprehensible. I did fix some parts so now it's a little different and more correct in some parts.
philodice (Показать профиль) 24 декабря 2010 г., 3:03:25
acdibble:Esperanto phonology - Stress and prosodyerinja:Poetic license is the reason why we are allowed to drop the -a in "la" and the -o on nouns; but to avoid misunderstanding, these changes are not allowed on other wordsThose changes are allowed by the 16 rules, no poetic license there. You can do that in everyday speech if you want. Also, it wasn't mangled beyond recognition if you understood it without looking at the prose. The word wasn't what it was initially expected to be but it's not incomprehensible. I did fix some parts so now it's a little different and more correct in some parts.
Within a word, stress is on the penultimate syllable, with each vowel defining a syllabic nucleus: familio [fa.mi.ˈli.o] "family". An exception is when the final -o of a noun is elided, usually for poetic reasons, as this does not affect the placement of the stress: famili’ [fa.mi.ˈli].
Specifically, poetic elision in Esperanto is only allowed on the 'o' at the end of nouns, and the 'a' in 'la'.
Elision is the omission of one or more sounds (such as a vowel, a consonant, or a whole syllable) in a word or phrase, producing a result that is easier for the speaker to pronounce. Sometimes, sounds may be elided for euphonic effect.
Elision is normally unintentional, but it may be deliberate. The result may be impressionistically described as "slurred" or "muted."
An example of deliberate elision occurs in Latin poetry as a stylistic device. Under certain circumstances, such as one word ending in a vowel and the following word beginning in a vowel, the words may be elided together. Elision was a common device in the works of Catullus. For example, the opening line of Catullus 3 is: Lugete, O Veneres Cupidinesque, but would be read as Lugeto Veneres Cupidinesque.
The elided form of a word or phrase may become a standard alternative for the full form, if used often enough. In English, this is called a contraction, such as can't from cannot. Contraction differs from elision in that contractions are set forms that have morphologized, but elisions are not.