글: 10
언어: English
keithwood57 (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 27일 오전 9:50:26
I wonder if someone would be kind enough to lay out the use of the 'U' ending.
I have read and re-read these sentences in Piron's Gerda Malaperis and cannot for the life of me see why the 'U' ending is used in preference to the 'as' ending in these cases:
p6 "Eble li volas, ke sxi rigardu al la alia direkto..."
p7 "Cxu vi permesas, ke mi sidu cxe via tablo? ... Kompreneble, vi sidu kun ni."
p17 "Cxu mi sekvos lin? Cxu mi sekvu lin?" (That one totally mystifies me - she uses both forms. apparently to say the same thing!)
"Cxu mi sekvu lin ekstere?"
I would be grateful if someone could clarify the rule for me.
Dankon!
Kicxjo.
darkweasel (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 27일 오전 11:25:51
Miland (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 27일 오후 12:04:12
keithwood57:I .. cannot .. see why the 'U' ending is used in preference to the 'as' ending in these cases:The ending -u is used to express a wish, whereas -as is used to express plain facts. So on page 6 we have "Possibly he wants that she (should) look in the other direction". On page 7 we have "Is it all right with you that I (may) sit here? ... Of course, (do) sit with us." On page 17 we have "Will I follow him? Should I follow him? Should I follow him outside?" In the first of these she is speculating about whether she is likely to do something in the future. In the others she is wondering whether she should do it at all.
p6 "Eble li volas, ke sxi rigardu al la alia direkto..."
p7 "Cxu vi permesas, ke mi sidu cxe via tablo? ... Kompreneble, vi sidu kun ni."
p17 "Cxu mi sekvos lin? Cxu mi sekvu lin?" (That one totally mystifies me - she uses both forms. apparently to say the same thing!)
"Cxu mi sekvu lin ekstere?".
Hope that helps.
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 28일 오전 9:46:33
The difference between the two forms is a little clearer with other verbs.
With gajni en la loterio, only the indicative form would be expectd. The only sensible question is Will I win, ĉu mi gajnos. Ĉu mi gajnu would be strange as normally you have no control over winning.
A teenage girl, however might ask herself Will I ever get married, or debate with herself as to whether she should get married. The latter could be expressed with the u-form in Esperanto.
Ironchef (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 28일 오후 2:41:36
sudanglo:...With gajni en la loterio, only the indicative form would be expectd. The only sensible question is Will I win, ĉu mi gajnos. Ĉu mi gajnu would be strange as normally you have no control over winning....Does ĉu mi gajnu not suggest the subjunctive as in "were I to win....I would...." something?
darkweasel (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 28일 오후 4:22:30
Ironchef:No, that's -us.sudanglo:...With gajni en la loterio, only the indicative form would be expectd. The only sensible question is Will I win, ĉu mi gajnos. Ĉu mi gajnu would be strange as normally you have no control over winning....Does ĉu mi gajnu not suggest the subjunctive as in "were I to win....I would...." something?
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 29일 오후 12:01:36
A more natural use of 'ĉu mi ... u' would be if someone said it was too hot and another person volunteered to open a window.
A. Ĉu vi ne trovas ke estas iom varme ĉi tie.
B. Eble, ĉu mi malfermu fenestron?
A. Bonvolu.
B's reply in English might be 'Would you like me to open a window' but the function of this is to seek instruction - they are asking for u-type equivalent response.
erinja (프로필 보기) 2010년 12월 29일 오후 1:05:51
"Ĉu mi gajnu?" would mean "Should I win?" in terms of maybe, am I worthy of winning? And "Mi gajnu!" means that I feel I have a right to win, I deserve to win, I *should* win!
But "Were I to win, I would..." this is really just a re-wording of a standard if-then statement. "If I won, I would...", which is a standard -us -us combination, "Se mi gajnus, mi ...-us"