Mesaĝoj: 386
Lingvo: English
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 17:30:47
erinja:(b)nicely and succinctly explain that Esperanto isn't open to reforms, and then ignore their follow-on messages+1
(And I usually ignore the responses to those follow-on messages as well.)
Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 18:10:37
erinja:(b)nicely and succinctly explain that Esperanto isn't open to reformsI don't like the phrase 'isn't open to reform'. This sounds like we're some kind of closed society with a bizarre language rigidly stuck in time. (I hope nobody will moan about the latter point. Gentle change has happened and perhaps will happen, just hopefully according to the fundamental principles).
"Isn't open to reform" also sounds a bit nasty somehow and it will definitely rile these 'reformers' to get even more stubborn with their ideas. Then this kind of thread will certainly ensue as there are always loads of people here eager to join in with their 'defence of Esperanto' (which is highly embarrassing once it gets to the stage when it's clear the initiator of the thread has very fixed ideas and doesn't really want to try to understand Esperanto as it is).
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 18:37:27
Chainy:I don't like the phrase 'isn't open to reform'.My message wasn't meant to be verbatim what we should tell the beginners
However if you have an idea for a sample message to send to such a beginner who comes in with a reformist idea, I would love to see it.
Altebrilas (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 18:42:20
Most projects have drawbacks that the author didn't notice, and it is therefore necessary to explain them. A key is that if his reform is not compatible with standard esperanto, a century of literature will become obsolete.
Some projects may be relevant, but given the effort required to reprint the textbooks, grammars, dictionaries, it is really worth? Has the author of the project he estimated the cost? And how will he manage to gather speakers and raise funds to start his project? Has he already begun?
I think these arguments, quite rational, may be opposed to reformers, rather than a sectarian dogmatism that locks them in the belief they are right and they are misunderstood.
Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 19:47:45
erinja:oh bother. I just wrote a massive message to express some ideas, but then my computer crashed and I lost the lot. Deep breath required. I'll get back to you later.
However if you have an idea for a sample message to send to such a beginner who comes in with a reformist idea, I would love to see it.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 20:03:25
It's a tragedy to lose those things but fortunately they're always easier to write the second time around.
AnFu (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 21:16:06
Chainy:I agree with your concern about appearing unreasonable and ridgid, however, I don't think any established language is open to reform. I think that's a fact. It's a reality. Gradual, small changes are one thing. Reform is entirely different. I would love to reform English. I would like to reform French. But guess what? That's not going to happen. And it's not going to happen because English speakers and French speakers are not open to reform. So I think it's ok and perfectly normal for Esperanto to be "not open to reform", and the sooner a beginner accepts that fact, the better for his learning, and for the Esperanto community.erinja:(b)nicely and succinctly explain that Esperanto isn't open to reformsI don't like the phrase 'isn't open to reform'. This sounds like we're some kind of closed society with a bizarre language rigidly stuck in time. (I hope nobody will moan about the latter point. Gentle change has happened and perhaps will happen, just hopefully according to the fundamental principles).
erinja:"Thank you for your delightful, charming and entertaining proposals for the reform of Esperanto.Chainy:I don't like the phrase 'isn't open to reform'.My message wasn't meant to be verbatim what we should tell the beginners
However if you have an idea for a sample message to send to such a beginner who comes in with a reformist idea, I would love to see it.
However, we regret to inform you that, although Esperanto has gradually and minutely evolved in a few ways over the last 100 years, Esperanto is not open to reform at this time."
And in response to follow-up reform posts, repost the same above statement.
Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 21:41:43
AnFu:"Thank you for your delightful, charming and entertaining proposals for the reform of Esperanto.Sounds too condescending. Not a good move.
However, we regret to inform you that, although Esperanto has gradually and minutely evolved in a few ways over the last 100 years, Esperanto is not open to reform at this time."
And in response to follow-up reform posts, repost the same above statement.
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 23:47:58
erinja:if you have an idea for a sample message to send to such a beginner who comes in with a reformist idea, I would love to see it.I thought AnFu's letter was not bad.
Anyway, here's another suggestion.
Dear Sir
Thank you for your message suggesting reforms to the Esperanto language.
I should inform you that the fundamentals of the language were fixed at the first World Congress in 1905 and are permanent, for all practical purposes. This commitment to the fundamentals has given the language its stability.
While a gradual evolution does occur with time, any changes have to become accepted by a consensus of the community of users of the language. I am sure that you will understand that beginners are not qualified to propose such changes.
We would encourage all sympathetic enquirers to learn Esperanto, as it really is, and see for themselves that Zamenhof's International Language is an effective solution for the world's language problem.
Yours Sincerely
...
T0dd (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-01 23:53:23