johmue:
But not by someone whom I have not yet seen coming up with even one sentence of correct Esperanto, claiming that "My extensions are required!"

Exactly. Everything that Epikuro comes up with is ridden with errors.

Apparently, he's 12 years old, so maybe we shouldn't be so hard on him.

All part of the learning process. But why are experienced Esperanto users getting so hot under the collar about it all? Praise the lad for his efforts.

Epikuro57:

johmue:Nope. The word you could use is "ankaŭ".

Not according to the lernu dictionary, it translates ankaŭ as also and ĉu as either. Different words with different meanings.

You can't win a debate on the meaning of a word by looking at a bilingual dictionary. The meaning of an Esperanto word is determined by the Esperanto-language definition of the word. The translation of that Esperanto word into any other language should be considered an approximation of the meaning only. There's no one to one correlation, because the exact translation depends on the context of use.

Even a seemingly straightforward translation might not be as exact as you think. For example, the English word "evening" is translated as "sera" in Italian. But the English "evening" is usually considered to start shortly before sunset. The Italian word "sera" includes the late afternoon; so in Italian, you might start wishing someone a "good evening" (buona sera) as early as 2 or 3 PM, whereas that time period would still be considered "afternoon" in English.

So even though you could say that "evening = sera", the meaning isn't quite the same.

Real languages grow and evolve over time, and Zamenhof was well aware of that. New words are added to English all the time, and people seem to keep up perfectly well.

New words are added to Esperanto all the time, to express new concepts. But we don't replace existing basic words like "good" and "bad", just as we don't replace the words "good" and "bad" in English. Would you call me a closed-minded linguistic purist if I told you that in English, I oppose replacing the word "cow" with "bos"? The word "cow" works perfectly and everyone knows it. Why should I replace it with another word that only a few people would recognize?

I have zero interest in Ido. From what I can tell the Idists did away with phonetic spellings, which was undoudtedly a real step backwards.

Ido spelling is phonetic. It is a little less simple than Esperanto spelling but there are regular rules to govern the spelling and pronunciation. There are no exceptions to these rules that I'm aware of. In that sense Ido's spelling is just as phonetic as Esperanto's; the only difference is that Esperanto spelling is governed by simpler rules.

I think you would like Ido if you gave it a chance. I encourage you to give it a try. Ido "fixed" the vocabulary "problem" that you seem not to like in Esperanto.

Or, if you don't like Ido's alphabet, maybe you could go to the Ido community and suggest they change their spelling to be more phonetic. Ido has historically been much more open to change than Esperanto, for obvious historical reasons. You seem to be pretty open about asking for changes in living languages so it seems reasonable to me that you could ask the Ido community to change their spelling if you feel comfortable asking the Esperanto community to change their vocabulary.

@Epikuro

Or, to summarise things:

Do some courses on this website rather than witter on and on about absolutely nothing.

I disagree with your summary, Chainy.

My summary is, @Epikuro, go learn Ido, because I think you will like it much better than Esperanto.

Epikuro57:
You're sounding very much like a close-minded purist -- a presumptuous one at that -- which is a good way of keeping the Esperanto-speaking community small and not very significant. You're also overlooking the fact that Esperanto has already been extended greatly since it was first invented.

Guess what? Evolution comes from fluent speakers, not mere beginners. English doesn't "evolve" and "get richer" simply because people who can't speak the language well start using weird forms.

What if a French speaker insisted on using "thou" to parallel the formal/informal and singular/plural distinction? It would make English richer!

Epikuro57:I look forward to the day when I speak Esperanto well enough to discuss the subject in Esperanto, with extensions of course.

Reformers tend to grow out of these habis. The day I started learning Esperanto, I wanted ĵ to be ẑ. I grew out of it within a week, I would estimate

Epikuro57:As for what's a real weakness, I'm surprised you don't see anything that could keep people away from Esperanto a weakness.

The problem is that someone is always going to take issue with something. I, for example, far prefer malbona to mava. Which is worse, alienating one potential speaker, or a whole community of fluent speakers?

erinja:I disagree with your summary, Chainy.

My summary is, @Epikuro, go learn Ido, because I think you will like it much better than Esperanto.

I don't really understand why I should feel anything against Ido, which is implied in this joke.

Ido was a genuine attempt at creating something new, not just endless moaning as is the case with Epikuro. I certainly don't dislike Ido enough to send Epikuro their way.

Actually, I really did not mean to disparage Ido in any way.

I was being totally genuine when I suggested that Epikuro would probably like Ido better.

If someone likes a certain feature in their language, and Esperanto doesn't have that feature and another language does, then I would rather that the person go learn that other language, rather than hang around Esperantujo complaining about all of the features of Esperanto that they don't like.

Now, as to your second point, whether I want to inflict Epikuro on the Ido community - I can't respond to that one. It is my hope that he would join Ido and find his niche in their community, contributing positively to Ido culture.

erinja:Actually, I really did not mean to disparage Ido in any way.

I was being totally genuine when I suggested that Epikuro would probably like Ido better.

Maybe you're right, who knows. It's been ages since I last looked into Ido, so I can't really say.

ceigered:Thus:
Mi es (estes) na esperesentisto. Chu mik esperesentiks vortos es na komprenitetiks? Ne? Kijal ne? *"

I just love the effort you put into making that! You're in danger of making the moan bin a genuinely entertaining place to hang out!