Mesaĝoj: 11
Lingvo: English
Genjix (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 18:59:07
"you will spend $8 of the money (that money there)"
How do I then say:
"How much of the money will you spend?"
Kiom da mono vi spezos?
Kiom takes no object marker? Isn't this ambiguous?
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 19:09:02
Genjix:Kiom da mono vi spezos?Well, elspezos, but you're right about kiom da mono.
Genjix:Kiom takes no object marker? Isn't this ambiguous?It can be ambiguous, theoretically, but if both subject and object cannot be put into the accusative, the sentence will be understood according to the rule: subject first, object afterwards.
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 20:05:04
Kiom da refers to an undefined available quantity, while Kiom de (or el) refers to a limited quantity from which something is taken.
The following page from PMEG may be helpful.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 20:52:28
Ĉu vi volas iom da kafo?
Mi ne komprenas (kio estas la problemo).
Mi ne povas diri (kiel li eksciis tion).
The object is often not marked. This isn't a problem for several reasons.
Firstly, it is often obvious which is the object from the sense of the sentence.
Secondly if there is a word in the sentence which could be the subject or the object, and it isn't marked, then that is the subject.
In your example 'Kiom da mono vi elspezos?', it's 'vi' and not 'vin', so vi must be the subject. Also people spend money and money does not spend people.
Thirdly, the over-riding order is SVO subject verb object in basic declarative sentences.
In the sentence John kisis Susan, whilst theoretically it could be Susan who did the kissing, no Esperantist would normally understand it this way.
Genjix (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 21:30:14
Miland:Kiom da refers to an undefined available quantity, while Kiom de (or el) refers to a limited quantity from which something is taken.Bitcoin is an deflationary currency. 21 million BTC is the limit. In English (correct any anglismo) we refer to 'the bitcoin' for the entire currency unit.
At what point does:
"How much of the bitcoin"
Kiom da la bitcoino
become:
Kiom el la bitcoino
To use that sentence, I must have a semblance of how much is "how much" beforehand.
(I'm half serious and didn't intend this- but it's a thought).
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 22:23:46
Genjix:At what point..If you have a limited amount of money and it is not certain that you will be able to afford something, the question is kiom de or kiom el (via mono) you will be able to afford. If you are likely to have the resources for any practical possibility, it is kiom da.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-08 23:42:38
Not sure I understand the difference in meaning that we are parsing out here. Something costs however much it costs. The cost doesn't change based on whether I can afford it or not.
If you want to know how much of the money that you have it costs - that doesn't matter either. It costs X, and if I have X exactly then it costs all of my money, and if I have less than X, I can't afford it.
This "bitcoin" reminds me of a Spesmilo
tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-09 02:32:05
erinja:Just a small note - "da la" is never correct. "da" is never accompanied by "la". You have to use "da" alone, or else use "de la".Except on very rare occasions when "la" or demonstratives/pronouns don't define an individual, but rather a class of thing.
http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/rolmontriloj/...
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-09 16:31:44
erinja:Not sure I understand the difference in meaning that we are parsing out here. Something costs however much it costs.The original question, as I understood it, was not about a specific item with a fixed price. It was about how much someone would spend. For many things a choice of items and a range of prices are available.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-januaro-09 19:49:06
Or if you want to know how much they would spend out of the quantity they have, "Kiom da mono vi elspezus, el la kvanto kiun vi havas?"