Tin nhắn: 253
Nội dung: English
trojo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:20:50 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
razlem:There are certain factually incorrect things you've stated about Esperanto indicating that you lack even a basic familiarity with it. Namely...
"It seems a shame to trash something without really knowing what you're trashing"
Is there anything I said in particular that would lead you to this conclusion? I would say something similar for the many critics of my language.
Exhibit A: "...such as replacement of prepositions." "-Which prepositions?" If you actually spoke Esperanto you'd know.
Exhibit B: "Just the fact that it does not represent [in the vocabulary] any language outside of Europe proves this." All that would be needed to disprove this assertion would be just one root from a non-European language in Esperanto, since you said that there aren't ANY. In fact there are several. Since you are an alleged linguist, you tell us, what is the source language of algebro and alabastro? How about samurajo? I know your answer will be that those don't count because cognates of those words exist in English too, but how can a root being borrowed into English also make it LESS international?
trojo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:22:55 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
T0dd:I'd guess the language is SavazanoAt the top of that page is this:
"The author requests that you do not make significant changes to this project without first seeking approval."
Kind of ironic, eh?
razlem (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:24:25 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
"And your evidence for this is...? I'll keep asking for evidence as long as you keep presenting your opinions as if they were documented fact."
Basic arithmetic:
SVO < (SVO + OSV + SOV + n for nouns + n for adjectives)
""Al" and "je""
If the prepositions still exist, then the accusative has not replaced them. Instead of saying "al/je", you've introduced a new grammatical element IN ADDITION to the existing prepositions. In other words, if you can denote the accusative with "al" and "je", why bother putting in an accusative case? It's only more to memorize.
Such other uses are highly irregular- not every language denotes time periods or measurements in accusative. Wouldn't it be easier just to say "two days" rather than "two days(ACC)"? I know what you're saying if you say "Mi revenos du tagoj."
Again, basic arithmetic:
(al + je) < (al + je + n for nouns + n for adjectives)
"But you have been asked again and again in this thread to show (not just assert) that this is due to its real or imagined linguistic defects."
See above.
"And if you start over, what reason do you have to suppose that your project will fare better than Esperanto, or Ido..."
I don't, that's what makes it interesting. Whether it succeeds or fails, it will be a learning experience.
razlem (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:25:46 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
T0dd:I'd guess the language is Savazano. Obviously no one here has criticized it, and this forum really would be the wrong place for that.It's not Savazano actually, it would be listed in my profile as "Group Project"
Speaking for myself only, I'm critical of some of the rather grand claims you've made, without any support. Your language looks interesting.
razlem (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:45:34 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
"Exhibit A: "...such as replacement of prepositions." "-Which prepositions?" If you actually spoke Esperanto you'd know."
I asked to make a point, which is shown in a previous post.
The origins are foreign, but the meanings have a European twist:
algebro - Arabic, from "al-jabr" meaning "restoration", yet it is used in Europe as a system of arithmetic. The word "resoration" in Esperanto is (according to Traduku) "restarigo."
alabastro- thought to be from the Greek form of the Egyptian word for "vase of Bast". In Europe, the term "alabaster" refers to the material rather than the vessel. In Esperanto, a vase would be "vazo."
samurajo- Japanese, obviously. But this is a specific cultural term. Plus it's relatively modern and its meaning has not been subject to geographic/political change.
danielcg (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 21:01:25 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
He walks quickly.
Often I'll write "he walk" and then remember I need +s and go back and add it.
Often when speaking, I'll forget the -s.
(OK, presently I seldom forget the -s in the verbs, and I seldom forget the accusative in Esperanto, but I think you'll grasp what I mean.)
Regards,
Daniel
Genjix:the accusative case is confusing.
miajn grandajn tigrojn
often I'll write "mia granda" and then remember I need +jn and go back to add them after.
Often when speaking, I'll forget the +n
And if you removed esti and mi then people would stop saying esperanto sounds like spanish (people compare languages by the very few words they know).
I'm not even sure esti as a verb is needed:
Mi estas granda
Mi as granda
Li estis agisto
Li is agisto
Can someone tell me why that wouldn't work?
Genjix (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 23:52:27 Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2011
However, why would dropping esti from your sentences not be Esperanto? AFAIK there's nothing stopping you from doing that in the core grammar. Isn't Esperanto supposed to evolve with people's usage?
In short if everyone started saying:
Tigro as granda.
Would it become 'official'?
horsto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 00:28:45 Ngày 15 tháng 1 năm 2011
razlem:I wouldn't understand neither "Mi revenos du tagoj." nor "Mi revenos du tagojn." It seems that you didn't even invest 2 or 3 months to really learn the basics of the language.
Such other uses are highly irregular- not every language denotes time periods or measurements in accusative. Wouldn't it be easier just to say "two days" rather than "two days(ACC)"? I know what you're saying if you say "Mi revenos du tagoj."
That really makes me sad. It seems that nearly everbody thinks today that he is brilliant and can solve problems within some weeks where a real genius like Zamenhof invested decades of his life.
razlem (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 01:01:44 Ngày 15 tháng 1 năm 2011
horsto:Are you sure? That's how I understood it. "I will return (in) two days." Since two days is a period of time, shouldn't it have the accusative ending? I figured "je" would be redundant.
I wouldn't understand neither "Mi revenos du tagoj." nor "Mi revenos du tagojn."
trojo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 01:25:01 Ngày 15 tháng 1 năm 2011
razlem:Je is not preferred there either. More details in this thread:horsto:Are you sure? That's how I understood it. "I will return (in) two days." Since two days is a period of time, shouldn't it have the accusative ending? I figured "je" would be redundant.
I wouldn't understand neither "Mi revenos du tagoj." nor "Mi revenos du tagojn."
How to say "in five minutes"