Hey everyone,

sorry for making so many topics, but I have questions I hear your sighs haha

Anyway, before learning about this site, I stumbled upon, and completely the first ten lessons at this website and I'm sort of stuck.

The website says that after completion of the first 10 lessons, one should be ready for the famous "Gerda Melaperis!"
I've been through the first five or so chapters, but I find myself looking up more words than I can remember, usually I'm looking up the same word many times. Is it natural when undertaking this course? Or, if any of you have seen the lessons previous before, would you recommend something else?

The Ana Pana thing seems a little too easy for me, maybe I just think that the next level up is too big of a jump, but in reality I could take it on, but I don't know.

I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who are better speakers than I am (which is pretty much everyone ) what route did you take to get to the point where you are today?

Esperanto has always fascinated me, it's just the "lack" of complete learning courses that I can find. I'm also studying Swedish, and I got my hands on Rosetta Stone. The way they teach is the way I learn... not saying "we need Esperanto Rosetta Stone!" (though it would be nice) but I don't really know where to go from one step to the next. Like I said I guess I'm sort of stuck at the level I'm at now and don't know where to turn to to progress further, and I am curious to see what paths more advanced speakers took.

Mathieux

For a rosetta stone equivalent (but free) I think livemocha will suffice (google it, they now have an EO course (you get what you pay for though so don't expect the voice quality of professional language learning software).

As for using the dictionary alot, it's not a problem . When you tackle bigger texts it's more or less expected for you to use a dictionary non stop. Eventually using a dictionary will be sinch, and finding words will be easier, and the faster you can look up a word the quicker you can remember it

I got to where I am with EO mostly through these forums, on the English ones no doubt (with more frequent forays into the EO only territory when something offtopic to learning comes up I wanna talk about). I'm still learning of course, but it goes to show that as long as you have some form of practice learning a language can be done.

If you want to skip up a level with Ana Pana, do so, if you don't think you're at the right level, go back down, just experiment basically!

Hi Mathieux.

I learnt Esperanto when I was slighty older than you (about 20, now I'm 53).

I had vaguely heard about Esperanto but thought it was some project which had never been put into practice. Then, by chance, I read an article in a magazine about it. Appart from knowing that Esperanto was in use, two other affirmations struck me: 1) that its grammar had only 16 rules without exceptions, and 2) that it could be learnt in 20 hours.

By that time, I already spoke English (my mothertongue is Spanish), which had taken me quite a few years to learn up to a decent level (and I still can't use it as fluently as I'd like).

So, out of pure curiosity, I decided to learn that "artificial" language.

I took a course with an excellent Argentine Esperantist, Alberto Vigliani, now deceased. I used the book "Sabe Usted Esperanto?" ( = Do you know Esperanto?) by Jorge Hess, a classic work for Spanish speakers.

As the article stated, by the end of the 20 hours I already knew enough grammar as to be able to understand any text written in Esperanto with the help of a dictionary. I lacked vocabulary, but that was not a great problem. In English I would be still struggling with all the uncountable rules and structures, not to mention the lots of exceptions (and this is not a derogatory statement about English, I'm pretty concious that Spanish must be equally difficult for English speakers, specially our countless verb conjugations, and their irregularities too).

So I bought a pocket dictionary and I began to read. Back then, the first Esperanto book I learnt was "Karlo", by Edmond Privat. It was a small novel about a boy, since its birth until his marriage. But it was specially intended for beginners. It was nice and it served its purpose. I never read "Gerda malaperis" but I guess it must be on the same line.

Believe it or not, back then there was neither internet nor cell phones nor Spyke. But there were still people in lots of (for me) exotic lands, eager to get in contact with people all around the world, using my new language. They published little ads in Esperanto publications and we used the good and old snail mail. And so I began to correspond with esperantists from all around the world. The postman must have been astonished to see how much correspondence I continuously received!

Nowadays it can be much easier, thanks to the internet. So my advice is: read, read, read, correspond, correspond, correspond. Never mind if you have to resort to a dictionary, it is perfectly normal. You are just broading your vocabulary, and at an accelerated speed, since each time you learn an Esperanto root, you have already learnt all the word family, unlike in our respective mothertongues, in which there is no guarantee that a group of horses will be named like a horse + the suffix -ar.

(I'll go on in another message, I'm running out of space.)

(continuation from previous message)

A grammar book I found most useful was "La Tuta Esperanto" de Henrik Seppik, which I think is available in electronic form in Lernu's site. Though it was written back in the 30s, it is still a good work about grammar and it is also easy to read. Surely, the language has evolved since then but what it teaches is still valid today.

Unlike my first Esperanto textbook, which was intended for Spanish speakers, Seppik's "La Tuta Esperanto" was completely written in Esperanto and intended for anyone who had the basics of the language.

Besides, I encourage you to go to the Esperanto forums of Lernu (without leaving the English ones, of course). Don't be ashamed if you make mistakes (I'm sure you can find some mistakes in my English messages too). Almost any Esperantist will be more than glad to help you improve your mastering of the language.

Well, that's all for now.

Regards,

Daniel

Mathieŭ:The website says that after completion of the first 10 lessons, one should be ready for the famous "Gerda Melaperis!"

I didn't see Gerda Malaperis! mentioned on the page you linked to, but looking at the vocabulary, it seems to be of a similar level, so that if you master it, you should be able to manage GM comfortably.

Mathieŭ:I've been through the first five or so chapters, but I find myself looking up more words than I can remember..

This is getting near the heart of the matter. It takes time to absorb vocabulary, but it must be done. Otherwise you have not studied the material properly.

Mathieŭ:The Ana Pana thing seems a little too easy for me..

This course has an online tutor. Have you had any comments about going too quickly and making mistakes in consequence?

So far as "complete" courses go, the ones on this website are pretty comprehensive for beginners. However if you want alternatives, the book by Richardson can be recommended, and Teach Yourself Esperanto (revised in the 1990s by J.H. Sullivan), from which I began myself, may be available on the used market.

For audiovisual material, the TV beginners' course Mazi en Gondolando is accessible on Youtube.

The recordings from the 1930 Linguaphone course have been placed on the internet, thanks to the EAB's librarian. You may be able to find the accompanying textbook through the used book market, or at Esperanto meetings.

An expensive course on DVD is Pasporto al la tuta mondo.

You ask about more advanced courses. After finishing Gerda, the next step can be [url=http://en.lernu.net/biblioteko/rakontoj/vere_aŭ_fantazie/index.php]Vere aŭ Fantazie?[/url] and then the articles from Juna Amiko, all available free on this website. After that you will be ready for books like Marjorie Boulton's Faktoj kaj Fantazioj, but this is not free.

Mathieux:The website says that after completion of the first 10 lessons, one should be ready for the famous "Gerda Melaperis!"
I've been through the first five or so chapters, but I find myself looking up more words than I can remember, usually I'm looking up the same word many times. Is it natural when undertaking this course? Or, if any of you have seen the lessons previous before, would you recommend something else?

I'm also finding Gerda a struggle after the first few chapters - but quite enjoyable, still.

There is a software course available at http://www.kurso.com.br/ which I find moderately useful, for drill practice. Much of it can be completed without a tutor; it may or may not be of interest to you.

La Verda Koro is online at http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Kursoj/Verda_Ko...

Matthew, the transition from the basics to a more advanced level can be a bit of a struggle. It's best to take the Esperantist propaganda about Esperanto being easy to learn with a pinch of salt. It's true at the start, less so as you progress. And to acquire fluency does require some effort.

I remember at my first international congress how I could pretty much understand what was said to me but could only reply hesitantly. This is certainly most people's experience.

I started with the Teach Yourself Esperanto book that others have mentioned. After finishing the book, which didn't take that long, I was lucky enough to find someone willing to spend an hour or two a week chatting with me in Esperanto. She was (and is) a very fluent speaker, so this was a tremendous benefit to me. Also, she had many contacts in the Esperanto world, and occasionally had Esperanto-speaking visitors. I remember my first experience speaking Esperanto to someone who really didn't speak English: a woman from China whose husband was in Philadelphia for a scientific conference.

I'd say it's worth making an effort to find someone in your area with whom you can practice a bit.

I started in September, and the following summer I went to NASK. This was a very important experience, since it was as close as one could come to "immersion" in the US. If you can find a way to attend NASK, I strongly recommend it.

When you study any language you pretty quickly hit a plateau where you know all of the really common words, because you encounter them so often in all of your learning and reading materials. But those words are not nearly enough to get you to fluency. There are simply too many words that you need once in a while. These are harder to learn, precisely because you don't use them as often. You're therefore more likely to forget them.

My Esperanto is intermediate now, but was advanced at one time. A lot of vocabulary has leaked out of my brain during periods when I wasn't using Esperanto so much. It'll come back, but it takes time. So in the meantime, I'm checking the dictionary a lot, just as you are. Esperanto's word-making capability is powerful, but you still need to learn a lot of root words.

Please, please, please do not skip Ana Pana!

The Ana Pana texts are not difficult, it's true. But the test in Ana Pana is to create your own sentences and have them corrected by a real person, which is totally different than doing a course that has automated corrections, or a course based on choosing the right answer, multiple choice.

A tutor-corrected course is the best way to get personalized feedback on your mistakes from someone who knows what they're talking about.

The Free Esperanto Book has a much-extended version of Ana Pana that might make for good review. All of the answers to the exercises are found in the book but it still isn't the level of feedback you'd get from a tutor - although the FEB contains many detailed explanations that aren't necessarily found on the lernu website.

In conclusion - don't skip Ana Pana. If it's really as easy as you think, then skip the other exercises and do only the correspondence exercises. If it's really that easy then it isn't a big waste of time because it will only take you an afternoon to do the course's 8 correspondence exercises. And perhaps it won't be as easy as you think, and you'll have a tutor's feedback to correct your errors and give you hints on ways you can work on your specific weaknesses.

I started 6 months ago, and Gerda Malaperis was the 2nd step as well. I got through it by producing my own dictionary from the vocabulary at the end of the chapters. I also produced a single A4 sheet of paper with the most common words on it, (kaj, ke, do, ktp). I wore out the A4 sheet as i was using it too much. I didn't start to remember the most basic words until about the 5th chapter. I needed the whole book before i started getting a basic understanding.

The 3rd text was "sxi estas mia amiko". It was during this text that i felt i was starting to get the hang of the language. Now i am going through "vere au Fantazie" I am still looking up some words that i probably should have remembered long ago, but most of the text is now understandable. Some of the word combinations still take a dictionary to fully comprehend.

Oh, and i am still using my A4 sheet, although i have remembered most of the words.