Translation of Sentence (Many Grammatical Confusions)
dari Fraqtive42, 29 Januari 2011
Pesan: 22
Bahasa: English
erinja (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 13.50.57
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Some notes to ceigered on the word "to walk":
I think the word "walk" isn't necessary for this translation, but just a note on that, I would not translate walk as "paŝi". In my opinion, paŝi is better translated as "to take a step". Dictionaries tend to give a definition like "to step, to pace, to stride". So I might say "Ne paŝu en la flakon!" (Don't step in the puddle!)
But stepping into a puddle is different than walking in a puddle.
For "walk", your two main choices are "marŝi" and "piediri". "Marŝi" is by far the most common. You may feel that it has a military connotation, and it's true that one of its meanings is "to march", but its other meaning is simply "to walk". It has completely lost its military connotation in the usage "to walk", and this is not a recent development; it dates back to very early Esperanto, and there are numerous examples of Zamenhof using "marŝi" to mean simply "to walk". (I am quite sure he wasn't talking about children getting old enough that they may 'march' to the store alone, or lame people being healed so that they may 'march'!)
Piediri is perfectly valid but it is used much less commonly than marŝi, and it tends to have a similar connotation as the English expression "to go on foot" (that is, you have chosen to go on foot rather than riding, driving, or some other method of transportation).
I sympathize with you, ceigered, because when I learned Esperanto, I used "piediri" for "to walk" because I felt like it was the most suitable word. Gradually I realized that my bias against marŝi was not based in fact, and that although it sounds like "march" (and although "to march" is one of its meanings), marŝi is the most common word for "to walk" and it is perfectly appropriate to use it, and without any sort of military connotation. I realized that it was piediri that had a slight connotation that I didn't necessarily want to give, so I switched to marŝi. You can certainly use piediri if you really really do not like marŝi at all, but I definitely don't suggest using paŝi for the simple meaning of "to walk", for the reasons I stated above.
ceigered (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 15.48.24
erinja:For "walk", your two main choices are "marŝi" and "piediri". "Marŝi" is by far the most common. You may feel that it has a military connotation, and it's true that one of its meanings is "to march", but its other meaning is simply "to walk". It has completely lost its military connotation in the usage "to walk", and this is not a recent development; it dates back to very early Esperanto, and there are numerous examples of Zamenhof using "marŝi" to mean simply "to walk". (I am quite sure he wasn't talking about children getting old enough that they may 'march' to the store alone, or lame people being healed so that they may 'march'!)Thanks so much for that. I was pondering them all and I swore that marŝi was the one I normally used to use, but when I checked the definition here on the EO-EO dictionary it had the military sense first, and the second sense was "paŝi". Piediri didn't even occur to me, but I probably won't make a habit of using it thanks to that "iri" component I slur too easily as "ili" (lazy aren't I?).
Piediri is perfectly valid but it is used much less commonly than marŝi, and it tends to have a similar connotation as the English expression "to go on foot" (that is, you have chosen to go on foot rather than riding, driving, or some other method of transportation).
If "marŝi" is indeed the normal word for walking I'm changing the definition around for EO-EN and EO-EO, lest anyone else go "whaaa?" when figuring out which word has the right connotation.
How's
EO-EO
1. iri piede (kun almenaŭ unu piedo sur surfaco iam); 2. iri per egalaj militistaj paŝoj; 3. [= paŝi]
(green is the added bit - I was feeling a bit unconfident translating "with at least one foot on a surface at any time" - perhaps that could be replaced with "iri piede, paŝante" - I'm assuming EO makes the same distinction as English in that walking involves stepping while bipedal running involves perpetual falling (otherwise frequently leaping)?)
EO-EN
to walk, to march
(simply flipped around)
Altebrilas (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 17.30.33
la lasta (why the last one?) kiu pasas apud la pordo fermu gxin
la lasta kiu uzas la pordon fermu gxin
ceigered (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 18.16.57
Altebrilas:(why the last one?)Because if the first person in a group closes the door, the rest will be locked out
zoroastro (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 19.11.54
erinja (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 19.54.19
1. Iri per egalaj militistaj paŝoj [to go by means of equal-length soldier-type steps]
2. Iri paŝante de iu loko al alia [to go by means of stepping from one place to another]
So for the Eo-Eo definition, you would do well to use PV's second definition as the first definition in lernu's dictionary.
Fraqtive42 (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 20.10.45
"The last person who walks through the door must close it."
Miland (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Januari 2011 22.32.23
Fraqtive42:"The last person who walks through the door must close it."One way of putting it:
La lasta homo kiu trapasas la pordon devas fermi ĝin. You could use tramarŝas, but I wouldn't do that if people unable to walk were present.
ceigered (Tunjukkan profil) 30 Januari 2011 07.05.44
Miland:Oh - that could be an interesting problem - it'd be, to some degree, rude to ignore the fact that not everyone walks (in some circles at least), but at the same time (in the same circles or in other conflicting circles), it'd be rude to expect someone who can't walk to close the door.Fraqtive42:"The last person who walks through the door must close it."One way of putting it:
La lasta homo kiu trapasas la pordon devas fermi ĝin. You could use tramarŝas, but I wouldn't do that if people unable to walk were present.
Translating English might be fine but translating political correctness seems a lot harder
Erinja:Ceigered, this is the Plena Vortaro's definition of marŝi:Thanks for that - before I go ahead with that, is it legally okay to nick that definition? Or will it need to be changed?
1. Iri per egalaj militistaj paŝoj [to go by means of equal-length soldier-type steps]
2. Iri paŝante de iu loko al alia [to go by means of stepping from one place to another]
So for the Eo-Eo definition, you would do well to use PV's second definition as the first definition in lernu's dictionary.
darkweasel (Tunjukkan profil) 30 Januari 2011 11.11.45