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Translation of Sentence (Many Grammatical Confusions)

de Fraqtive42, 29 ianuarie 2011

Contribuții/Mesaje: 22

Limbă: English

Fraqtive42 (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 04:24:13

I am trying to translate the following sentence into Esperanto:

"The last one who walks past the door, must close it behind him."

This is my best guess:

"La lasta oni kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devu fermi ĝi malantaŭ li."

Is this right? If not, what mistakes am I making?

Thanks for any help! rideto.gif

etala (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 04:59:20

Fraqtive42:I am trying to translate the following sentence into Esperanto:

"The last one who walks past the door, must close it behind him."

This is my best guess:

"La lasta oni kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devu fermi ĝi malantaŭ li."

Is this right? If not, what mistakes am I making?

Thanks for any help! rideto.gif
From what I know of Esperanto, the word ĝi in "La lasta oni kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devu fermi ĝi malantaŭ li." has to be ĝin because it's the direct object of fermi.

I feel like iu would be more appropriate for the sentence instead of oni; I thought oni was used in more generic cases like "they" in "They say, 'All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.'" or as "you" in "You know if you keep trying then you'll get better at it."

But then I'm not nearly fluent in Esperanto yet and I don't know if I can answer grammar questions.

Fraqtive42 (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 05:10:23

etala:
From what I know of Esperanto, the word ĝi in "La lasta oni kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devu fermi ĝi malantaŭ li." has to be ĝin because it's the direct object of fermi.

I feel like iu would be more appropriate for the sentence instead of oni; I thought oni was used in more generic cases like "they" in "They say, 'All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.'" or as "you" in "You know if you keep trying then you'll get better at it."

But then I'm not nearly fluent in Esperanto yet and I don't know if I can answer grammar questions.
Thank you. rideto.gif

ceigered (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 05:37:31

This got me wondering about the multiple ways to say "walk" in Esperanto, and I think "Paŝi" is better since it doesn't have the military connotations.

Maybe "La lasta persono kiu paŝas tra la pordo devas fermi ĝin".

(of course, lasta oni works too, but some might wish to avoid giving a pronoun and adjective - similarly, "devu" would work but it's not entirely necessary. All about style).

Preter means to go by, e.g. I walked past the house, I walked pass the crime scene, so I don't feel it necessary. If someone walks by (but not through) the door and sees it open? I'm sure if they're willing to close it anyway that they'd go "Oh, I didn't technically go through the door, but I should close it anyway because people want it closed for some reason".

T0dd (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 05:41:13

Fraqtive42:I am trying to translate the following sentence into Esperanto:

"The last one who walks past the door, must close it behind him."

This is my best guess:

"La lasta oni kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devu fermi ĝi malantaŭ li."

Is this right? If not, what mistakes am I making?

Thanks for any help! rideto.gif
You don't want to use ONI for "one" here. ONI is a pronoun, like "he" or "she", but the English phrase "last one" just means "last person."

Use DEVAS instead of DEVU. This verb already carries the meaning of it being imperative, so you don't need to use the -U ending.

As for the last bit, it's a little confusing in English. Normally the door is only behind me if I walk through it, not past it. So I'd leave that bit out and just say:

"La lasta homo kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devas fermi ĝin." In fact, I'd assume that in context we know we're talking about walking, as opposed to flying or surfing, so I'd omit the whole "marŝos preter" part too. I'd just say "La lasta homo kiu pasas la pordon devas fermi ĝin."

Evildela (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 05:41:17

"The last one who walks past the door, must
close it behind him."

It depends do you mean "past the door" as in walking through it then close it... or just a bunch of people near a door? Anyways I would say

La lasta persono kiu promenas tra la pordo, devu fermi gxin

danielcg (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 05:54:39

My two cents:

"Kiu laste trapasas la pordon, tiu devas fermi ĝin post si."

Or:

"Tiu, kiu laste trapasas la pordon, devas fermi ĝin post si."

Or:

"Tiu laste trapasinta la pordon, devas fermi ĝin post si."

There are a couple of mistakes in your proposal:

"Oni" is a pronoun. You could say "Se oni trapasas la pordon" or similar phrases, but definitively not "la lasta oni", since a pronoun may not be related to an article.

"Preter la pordo" should be "preter la pordon". The -n shows the direction of the movement. Lack of this ending would mean that the person was already beyond the door, and walked there, while what you want to say is that he passed through the door opening and as a resalt he reached beyond the door.

While I'm not sure "devu fermi" is incorrect, it seems redundant, and I would prefer "fermu".

"Fermi ĝi" should be "fermi ĝin", since "ĝi" is the direct object of "fermi".

"Malantaŭ li" is not grammatically incorrect, but it means something different from what you want to say. That "li" would be another person and not the subject of the phrase. Since I assume you mean the same person, you should say "malantaŭ si".

May I ask you all something about English grammar? It seems to me that the English phrase should end with "behind himself", instead of "behind him". Am I right? In case I am not, why? Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Daniel

Fraqtive42:I am trying to translate the following sentence into Esperanto:

"The last one who walks past the door, must close it behind him."

This is my best guess:

"La lasta oni kiu marŝos preter la pordo, devu fermi ĝi malantaŭ li."

Is this right? If not, what mistakes am I making?

Thanks for any help! rideto.gif

ceigered (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 07:42:39

@ T0dd - Homo probably would be better than "persono" wouldn't it? I think I made a mental fart there thinking about the psychological term "persona" too much...

"La lasta homo kiu pasas tra la pordo devas fermi ĝin (post si - is this part necessary?)"

Danielcg:May I ask you all something about English grammar? It seems to me that the English phrase should end with "behind himself", instead of "behind him". Am I right? In case I am not, why? Thanks in advance.
Doesn't really matter actually. It's more emphatic I think, in that it stresses that it's the same "he" that passed through the door and not some random other "he". So it sort of functions like "si" (because of the "self" part).

But, if I said "Can you close the door behind yourself", the "-rself" part sounds a bit strange and redundant (like "devu"), so I'd rather say "Can you close the door behind you?"

sudanglo (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 11:00:23

There is something distinctly weird about the English of this sentence. Normally you can only close a door behind you, if you use it (go through, not walk past it).

Perhaps the best thing is to side-step this issue.

Ne lasu ĉi tiun pordon malfermita se vi estas la lasta en la domo.

Fermu ĉi tiun pordon se vi eliros laste.

Ĉi tiu pordo devas esti fermita je la fino de la tago.

Miland (Arată profil) 29 ianuarie 2011, 11:00:36

Fraqtive42:I am trying to translate the following sentence into Esperanto:
"The last one who walks past the door, must close it behind him."
It's not clear whether the person is walking through a door, in which case closing it behind him would make sense, but in which case he wouldn't be walking past it, or whether the person is walking along a corridor past an open door, in which case "behind him" wouldn't make sense. What is the situation, exactly?

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