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ESPERANTO IS NOT ALONE !

de SEYMOUR, 2004-novembro-30

Mesaĝoj: 26

Lingvo: English

SEYMOUR (Montri la profilon) 2004-novembro-30 21:39:10

I'm very concern about this new movement of people try to bring latin

to life again.they call'em "interlingua"according to them this is the language

panacea of 21st century with up-to-date grammar and words;something

esperanto miss,they say.

well,I already check that language out and i don't think might threat

esperanto legacy of peace and friendship.

don't forget latin or interlingua whatever you call it belonged to the most

powerful empire on earth and second it's grammar still dificult as usual.

what do you think? what they purpose? speak your mind samideano!

 

Machjo (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-01 04:44:15

Certainly Esperanto is not alone, but there is no need for concern.  In some respects, there's even a symbiotic relationship between them.  Esperanto serves the 'Interna Ideo', while the others serve perfection. 

It's obvious from a pragmatic standpoint that if we want the world to eventually adopt a Universal Auxiliary Language, that we must first prove that such a language can in fact succeed in real terms, and the way to do so is to universalize Esperanto enough that no one could deny anymore that a universal auxiliary langauge can in fact succeed (we certainly will never be able to do so if we must learn a new improved language every three years; that will get us nowhere).

 

On the other hand, once Esperanto is universalized and people can no longer deny that a planned langauge can in fact function, the next question will be which one.  Certainly for the peoples of the world to select such a language, it would need to be a language which is easy for everyone (Esperanto can still be at least a little difficult for some).  Chances are that any committee which is established will consider the options available, as well as the option to create a new language based on what they can learn from a wide range of sources.  From that standpoint, other planned langauges can certainly make a contribution in the experimental field.

I personally have no interest in learning any other planned langauge, because I already have my hands full with English, French, Esperanto, Chinese, Arabic and Persian.  So while I'd recommend to all to learn Esperanto, I'd only advise those with sufficient time and resources to learn or create others.

 

Any other ideas?

conradcook (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-03 17:35:24

It's interesting to note, though, that Latin itself was a quasi-planned language, to unify the mutually unintelligable vulgate dialects.  The Romans needed political-linguistic coherence, looked at the terms held most in common, applied the Greek understanding of grammer, and announced:  "This is our state language!"

(A typically Roman solution.) 

For this reason, once you learn Latin, with all its declensions & irregularities, it's relentlessly logical.  In my understanding.

 

Konrado.

 

ps - In addition to Interlingua 1+2 (different languages), there's also Ido, Dutton Speedwords, and Klingon to get worked up about, if you care to go down that path.

tiberius (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-04 00:09:24

This is a little known fact. Even though people don't "speak" latin there per se, it is the "official" language of the smallest country in the world: Vatican City. This is an extention of the fact that Latin is the liturgical language of the Catholic Church, and it is the Catholic Church (or rather a foundation within the Holy See), if I am not mistaken, along with some guy from Finland, that is spearheading the movement to revive Latin as a spoken language. I for one think it could work. It worked with Hebrew and Sanskrit, why not Latin? the ATM machines at the Vatican have Latin

 

I'm excited about it. Latin is what got me interrested in linguistics, which in turn led me to Esperanto. I also consider Latin my personal favorite language (just look at my profile).

 

By the way. I disagree with the comment that Latin was "quasi constructed". I think the only real outside influence was Greek, and I assume even the Greek words were still considered Greek words rathar than Latin words, just like we consider "enui", and "chapeau" to be French rather than English. If anything, English is quasi constructed. Authors and playwrites just made words up from Latin words they knew and stuck them in their writings. Shakespear made up hundreds of them which are common words in English today, like "staircase". That's why I think Shakespear would have failed an English course in high school. 

 

Besides, as great as Esperanto is as a communication language, I think it will always fall short when it comes to poetry and song. After all, since all Esperanto nouns must by definition be more than one syllable and have regular panultimate stress, it would be hard to compose a line of iambic pentameter-dare I say- impossable.

 

Latina est lingua pulcrissima reventamque eius laete exspecto.

Latin is a very beautiful language, and I wait happily for its return.

Machjo (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-04 01:15:33

Tiberius said:

"Besides, as great as Esperanto is as a communication language, I think it will always fall short when it comes to poetry and song. After all, since all Esperanto nouns must by definition be more than one syllable and have regular panultimate stress, it would be hard to compose a line of iambic pentameter-dare I say- impossable. "

 

I'd just like to point out two points in Esperanto that you might not be aware of.  According to Esperanto rules of grammar, the final nominative singular -o marker at the end of a noun (It  cannot able accusative or plural, since the -o must definitely be the last letter) and letter 'a' in the word 'la' can be replaced by an apostrophe, without exception (as is the case with all other rules of Esperanto grammar).  So effectively:

la (the) can be written:

l'

 

and kapo (head) can be written:

kap'

 

I could likewise give many other examples of monosyllabic nouns:

man' (hand), kol' (neck), lit' (bed), mur' (wall), sun' (Sun), lun' (moon), stel' (star), ter' (earth), vir' (man, male, not generic), hom' (man, human).

 

I could go on, but I think the above is enough to prove the point.

Machjo (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-04 01:46:03

Tiberius wrote:

"I'm excited about it. Latin is what got me interrested in linguistics, which in turn led me to Esperanto. I also consider Latin my personal favorite language (just look at my profile). "

While I do believe that Latin could potentially become the universal auxiliary language, I'd suspect that it yould need tremendous revision so as to become easier.  I'd suspect Latin in its current form might still continue to exist as a Vatican language well into the forseeable future, although as for a 'pan-catholic' language, it is currently facing some challenges, as could be seen here:

http://home.t-online.de/home/Ulrich.Matthias/latin...

And as for any kind of Latin movement, yes, there is  least one, and you can get in touch with it at:

http://www.yleradio1.fi/zgo.php?z=2003121313168631...

They've got radio broadcasts and a BBS in Latin.  And maybe even more.

Machjo (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-04 02:11:28

About Latin and Interlingua.

I'd just like to point out, in responce to the initial post in this thread, that Interlingua is actually not Latin, and a distinct planned language in its own right.  I've already posted a link above for those who might be interested in Latin per se, and here is the link for Interlingua:

http://www.interlingua.com/

 

I get the impression, though, that the creators of Interlingua did not actually intend for it to become a universal auxiliary language, but an auxiliary language between native speakers of English, French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese specifically.  Being a native speaker of both French and English myself, I must admit that by giving their home page a glance, that their language could serve well for its apparent intended purpose.  In fact, at least for native speakers of the languages mentionned above in this post, developping a passive knowledge of Interlingua might even be easier than would be the case with Esperanto.

SEYMOUR (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-04 17:57:23

Well,i have to add between latin and interlingua the only diference is

that they modified it's basic structure in order to be more easy for

the vulgates(us) because they still use words like plus,ordum,ect.

they know not everybody is not a scientist or lawyer or something.

if you have checked out there's interlingua and interlingue they got the

same origin but they got their grammar difference and later split up.

but whatever you wanna see it interlingua is 21st latin-wanna-be.

 

Machjo (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-05 02:02:49

Seymour, vi pravas.  Vi povas trovi pli da informo pri Interlingue je:

http://www.interlingue.org/

 

Tamen, sxajnas al mi ke Interlingue estas iom pli logika ol Interlingua kaj has pli vastas influon el diversaj grandaj Euxropaj lingvoj.  Sxajnas, tamen, ke la kreintoj de tia lingvo ankaux celis ke gxi estu trans-Euxropan, kaj ne mondan, lingvon.

conradcook (Montri la profilon) 2004-decembro-08 15:51:27

Respectfully, Tiberius, I reiterate:  Latin was quasi-constructed.  The natural languages of Latium were sufficiently diverse to cause serious problems of communication; standardizing around the vocabulary of the upper-class, plus Greek grammer, overcame that obstacle:  but in the process, the language became something different from any existing mother tongue.  (It wasn't entirely constructed, because they didn't start from scratch.)  Latin has always been a learned language.

Konrado.

ps - The other problem Latin faced was in garnering the vocabulary Rome needed to discuss the issues of the modernity of antiquity, and they did that so well that subsequent languages mostly stole their vocabulary.  The Navaho developed their own vocabulary to deal with modernity; but that level of linguisitic innovation is rare.

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